Society and politics devroom at FOSDEM?
-
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k yep, and providing a moderated discussion with facilitators and structured debate in which these topics can be discussed constructively, taking inspiration from consensus decision-making procedures
There's also room for traditional talks w/Q&A but I envision this as being a very participatory program
-
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k and yeah even if someone wants to schedule something like "no one in FOSS understands my gender so let's sit down and figure it out together", I'm down to put that on the program.
-
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k I would love to have a session on reactionary politics in FOSS spaces, for another example
-
@[email protected] @[email protected] I do have a lingering feeling that even after all this time since the 2019 smear campaign discussions about Richard Stallman can not be avoided if you're organizing something like this.
-
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k RMS is a shitty person and talking about that is on-topic as far as I'm concerned. It's not a smear campaign if it's true.
https://drewdevault.com/2023/11/25/2023-11-26-RMS-on-sex.html
-
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k of course that topic would be carefully moderated and would focus on keeping it factual and respectful without leveling personal attacks and vitriol -- but the fact of the matter is that RMS is a problem
-
@[email protected] @[email protected] The fact you immediately state "rms is a problem" I think I have some doubts about your ability to moderate discussion about this topic in an unbiased manner.
-
Drew DeVaultreplied to SuperDicq last edited by [email protected]
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k I don't think that's true. First, because I would not necessarily be the moderator for this particular discussion, and might instead participate with an aim to justify my position under the facilitation of someone else; second, because I am perfectly capable of withdrawing my personal opinions and acting as a dispassionate moderator
-
Aroop Roelofs :verified:replied to Drew DeVault last edited by
@drewdevault Personally, I would be against holding these kinds of discussions on an event...
They are just too controversial to make a "main thing" and I only see it affect the overall mood in a negative way.It's good that there would be moderating but personally, I'd just avoid those situations in general... Just way too risky imho.
-
Drew DeVaultreplied to Aroop Roelofs :verified: last edited by
@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq why are you afraid of discussing controversial topics? Here you speak as if controversy is axiomatically undesirable.
-
@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq sometimes it's beneficial, and necessary, to talk about difficult subjects.
-
Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:replied to Drew DeVault last edited by@drewdevault @SuperDicq @finlaydag33k Possible but pretty sure most people would only trust a moderator that's not known for having a strong opinion on the topic, which could have the immediate effect of being seen as an unfair moderator regardless of facts.
-
Drew DeVaultreplied to Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: last edited by
@lanodan @SuperDicq @finlaydag33k true. But anyway, I definitely would not plan on being the sole moderator for the whole devroom lol, it would be easy to step down for a particular discussion which I have a strong opinion about
-
@[email protected] @[email protected] Everyone says they are capable of withdrawing their personal beliefs and feelings from a situation when necessary, but reality that rarely checks out.
I personally think for debates like this we might need to find a moderator who stands outside of the free software community and does not know who rms is. -
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k agreed.
-
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k btw, any discussion on RMS, if it were tabled, would be less "let's dogpile on RMS" and more "can we agree that the allegations regarding RMS are true, and that the calls for him to step down or be removed are justified" (topic 1), and if a consensus is reached, "why did the calls to action fail, does this highlight structural problems with the FSF or FOSS generally, what are the long-term effects of this series of events, and what might we do differently" (topic 2)
-
@[email protected] @[email protected] The way you ask those questions is already heavily biased, man.
Instead of asking "Can we agree..", the question should just be "Are the allegations true and is his removal justified?"
Especially the question "Why did the calls to action fail?" is very loaded. There were also plenty of calls to action to support the opposite side, these calls to action did not fail.
"Are there any structural problems with the FSF?" is a fair and neutral question to ask however. -
@SuperDicq @finlaydag33k it's not that loaded. Perhaps "can we agree", yes. But if we do agree, then "why did the calls for his removal fail" is an appropriate follow-up which is not biased in the context where the consensus has established that the calls were justified
-
Aroop Roelofs :verified:replied to Drew DeVault last edited by
@drewdevault I'm not afraid of discussing them (I'm very much involved in very controversial debates), I just don't want an otherwise fun get together to get soured by these things.
Imagine going to an event, excited to meet people and prepared for lots of fun...
Then suddenly people left, right and center start shouting and crying because these kinds of discussions (I can almost guarantee you that what happens at the table, won't just stay at the table).
I'm pretty sure that'd ruin the experience.
At least, it would for me. -
Drew DeVaultreplied to Aroop Roelofs :verified: last edited by
@finlaydag33k @SuperDicq are you aware that FOSDEM takes place over an entire university campus and is attended by ten thousand odd people and this devroom would make use of exactly one of its rooms for a small fraction of the attendees