@wyatt8740 @amyipdev I read that as Jewish for a sec, didn't understand thought for a moment you're Jewish and decided Ubuntu isn't Kosher for whatever reason

Laxystem

Amy (she/her/hers)

@[email protected] @[email protected] ah

Wyatt (🏳️‍⚧️♀?)

@laxla @amyipdev This is what debian package postinst scripts are for; setting up permissions automatically after a package is installed

Laxystem

@wyatt8740 @amyipdev I know still freaks me out, should be atomic, as in, reproducible on every machine, then if it's a security hazard it's not my fault and someone will catch it on another machine.

Manually installing something like this, even if it's automagically done by DNF, should not be the norm for a desktop OS imo

(I use Fedora)

Amy (she/her/hers)

@[email protected] @[email protected] "manually installing" installing something through apt/dnf/another package manager is not manual

Wyatt (🏳️‍⚧️♀?)

@laxla @amyipdev yeah, i think our views on what a unix or linux system should be are fundamentally incompatible then
because i recoil in horror at the notion of this shit being baked in as a non-removable module of a system. so much extra attack surface.

Amy (she/her/hers)

@[email protected] @[email protected] idk if its still an issue or not but the inability to remove malcontent on Fedora GNOME systems without tossing the entire base system drove me up a fucking wall

Laxystem

@amyipdev @wyatt8740 yeah stuff's absolutely crazy here on these topics.

But truth is even christians eat somewhat Kosher/Halal, it's simply culture by now

Some places sell both Khalavi and Basari, but very few do so together, and when they do, it's clearly marked (same for "contains alcohol")

The "kosher" sign mainly tells you that it's not open on Saturdays nowadays. I eat Kosher and idc about the sign.

Fancy Tel Avivian/Eilatian restaurants are probably the only place you have to worry about truly non kosher/Haram stuff.

Wyatt (🏳️‍⚧️♀?)

@amyipdev @laxla i remove systemd from my debian systems, i can relate. although malcontent is sooo much worse

Laxystem

@amyipdev @wyatt8740 yeah, but it is UX wise, I'm talking about desktop OSes.

Wyatt (🏳️‍⚧️♀?)

@laxla @amyipdev i run a desktop OS.

Amy (she/her/hers)

@[email protected] @[email protected] assuming an initial installation of core debian, are debian branches/spins (thinking devuan) reasonable alternatives for systemd avoidance?

Laxystem

@wyatt8740 @amyipdev I don't think you count at this point, you're too power usery for my fear of installing stuff that can do admin stuff without prepending sudo/run0

Laxystem

@amyipdev @wyatt8740 I heard they're pretty reasonably up to date, I know someone who runs one of them, they have the same kernel version I did on Fedora stable.

Wyatt (🏳️‍⚧️♀?)

@laxla @amyipdev my point is that you should not get to determine what is or isn't a desktop OS, nor what is or isn't good UX for everyone else.

Laxystem

@wyatt8740 @amyipdev I don't determine that, and it's irrelevant anyway, Ubuntu has snap by default, "these things shouldn't be pre-installed" doesn't apply—I simply said having *installable* flatpak doesn't really count for the quality of an OS that is supposed to be out of the box.

Wyatt (🏳️‍⚧️♀?)

@laxla @amyipdev does ubuntu come with flatpaks or snapsfor all the software you run already locally installed out of the box?
if not, then flatpak or snap on its own is useless, is it not?
package managers are there out of the box in order to install software that isn't there out of the box.
snap does the same thing in ubuntu but is basically another worse package manager bolted on.

Laxystem

@wyatt8740 @amyipdev

No, and no, good point though.

Windows doesn't come with a proper package manager either, so you could make that argument, too.

I don't think there's much to this convo anymore though, it's mostly about terms by now.

njsg

@laxla @amyipdev @wyatt8740
With at least Linux-based systems there days (or at least a couple decades ago?), you shouldn't really have "desktop OSes"*, you have systems you can configure to use in the way you want. Choice and versatility at least used to be one of the big advantages of Linux-based systems).

njsg

@laxla @amyipdev @wyatt8740
* There is an issue here, which is that "desktop" can be used in conflicting ways: sits on desk, has X11, has some window management, has a full-featured DE that can kinda feel like an OS of its own, or "mirrors [other OS]".
A lot of these can be used from the same distribution, requiring only configuration, so it doesn't work to classify them.