BREAKING: Israel's limited incursion into Lebanon is going so well that it has started World War III on the first day. This is much better than stopping arms sales to Netanyahu ️
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🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
@pkreissel @LauraKT because it is the only legal and only moral thing to do. Stopping offensive arms exports to a country perpetrating genocide is the absolute minimum, not an outlandish ask.
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@freediverx @LauraKT So why Hezbollah and Hamas continue to use violence, when they are clearly in the weaker position?
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Philip Kreißelreplied to 🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@JonathanTreffler @LauraKT this genocide framing is so unhelpful because it is so clearly factually wrong.
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🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
@pkreissel @LauraKT the facts are out there, if you refuse to put them together I can't help you
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Philip Kreißelreplied to 🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@JonathanTreffler @LauraKT Its is clearly possible that distinct warcrimes were committed, however everyone is just shouting „genocide“ which no one will take seriously.
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🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
@pkreissel @LauraKT genocide is just war crimes + intent to extinguish. The first part you already know to be true, the second part is normally hard to prove, unless the criminals are extremely stupid like israeli politicians who like shouting their fashist genocidal intent from the rooftops.
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Philip Kreißelreplied to 🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@JonathanTreffler @LauraKT the operation in Gaza clearly does not have the intent to extinguish. The population will likely be bigger after the war than before.
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@pkreissel @LauraKT
#1 They're fighting for rights to their land on which they've lived for thousands of years and #2 Hezbollah and Hamas ≠ all the people of Palestine and Lebanon. Israel has a moral right to defend themselves against those groups, but not to exact vengeance on innocent civilians.And I'm being generous on that last point given that Israel is an occupying force and an apartheid state that has actively blocked all efforts towards a peaceful, two-state solution.
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@freediverx @LauraKT so the land of Hezbollah, an Iranian funded militia, is northern Israel, where they killed civilians a few weeks ago and displaced hundreds? This is a proxy war by Iran, Palestinians are just a prop to them.
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🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
@pkreissel @LauraKT Well if one would want to extinguish one might ...
- bomb with unguided/massive (2000 lb) missiles in urban areas
- bomb hospitals
- target aid workers
- target journalists to make sure the truth does not get out
- run torture camps for people captured
- make sure not enough aid gets it and let the famine do the messy workOoooops they did everything on that list.
(1/many, please wait with reponses)
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🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to 🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
> The operation in Gaza clearly does not have the intent to extinguish. The population will likely be bigger after the war than before
[deleted long indignant rant about what a vile statement that last sentence is. I will just focus on the argument, the scolding would be appropriate, but it's just not worth my time and not good for my blood pressure. But this ends the part of the thread I feel the need to be nice, because wow what a statement]
(2/x)
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🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to 🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
This is not a consistent argument. It is literally a non sequitur and I know that phrase gets misused all the time, but it literally literally is.
Even if you assume the premise to be true: Arguing they are failing at extinguishing is not in any way proof they aren't trying. The argument has no logical through line and I don't think anybody trying to come up with an argument could come up with this, I can only explain this with parroting a disinformation source.
(3/x)
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Philip Kreißelreplied to 🐧 Jonathan Treffler 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@JonathanTreffler @LauraKT it’s not meant as vile. I wrote above that I think it’s likely some strikes were warcrimes. But warcrimes are not automatically genocide.
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Jeremy Jupiter Jonesreplied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
If you were paying attention you would understand Israel is under attack because of its refusal to stop their inhumane genocide. USA is simply pouring fuel on the fire. There will be no winners. US is globally despised for its role in this crisis of humanity.
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Philip Kreißelreplied to Jeremy Jupiter Jones last edited by
@jeremy_pm @LauraKT Hezbollah started their rocket attacks the same time as Hamas. On October 8th. This was not a „response“ to anything. They just didn’t want to be left out when Hamas butchered civilians in Israel.
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Jeremy Jupiter Jonesreplied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
The attacks you refer to on Oct 8 were not targeted at Israel they were directed at Israeli military targets in occupied territories. Facts are important.
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Philip Kreißelreplied to Jeremy Jupiter Jones last edited by
@jeremy_pm @LauraKT so Israel should just let that happen in your opinion? This was a direct violation of international law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1701
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Jeremy Jupiter Jonesreplied to Jeremy Jupiter Jones last edited by
Another fact that is never acknowledged is the motive behind the Oct 7 Hamas attack. With an estimated 10,000 Palestinians being held hostage by Israel including over 700 children Hamas hoped that by taking Israeli hostages they could negotiate the release of Palestinian hostages in an exchange. Not sure if you’re aware of the Hannibal Directive but Israel doesn’t prioritise the safety of those taken hostage.
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Jeremy Jupiter Jonesreplied to Philip Kreißel last edited by
It’s really not difficult. Israel should follow international law and withdraw from the occupied territories.
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Philip Kreißelreplied to Jeremy Jupiter Jones last edited by
@jeremy_pm @LauraKT there is zero justification for anything that happened that day. None. Taking hostages is a warcrime. Killing civilians, burning children is a warcrime.