Instance has been down all day so i haven't seen if there have been any Brazilians hopping on the fedi, but dang, elon really will lose an entire country that has the 6th most users and all the ad revenue that brings overnight just to be an edgelord - ...
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@jdp23 @jonny @laurenshof what do you mean? isn't bluesky still centralised? also, what do you mean by apartheid clide? it's interesting that mastodon wasn't really considered, but I guess that's because the government there doesn't want to have to host their own mastodon instance. But also, why do you think politicians don't want to involve themselves with the fediverse? maybe because this place is too diverse, too weird for them?
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"Apartheid Clyde" is my not-so-affectionate way of referring to Twitter's new racist owner.
Threads and Flipboard are centralized but everybody describes them as part of the fediverse Bridgy Fed both offer better connections betwee Bluesky and ActivityPub-based fediverse instances than Threads currently has.
Here's my take on why Lula would prefer Threads to something Mastodon (etc) based https://blahaj.zone/notes/9xky2jcsxe2b00ox
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@jdp23 @laurenshof @esoteric_programmer
yeah, like a politician almost by definition wants to have as much of an audience as they possibly can, to have their posts go viral, and to be on a "neutral" medium where there isn't such a thing as an instance that would be some meaningful signal of affiliation, even if that was the government's instance. the fedi is certainly not the place for politicians, which is fine imo. on the other hand i do think it's a shame that we didn't get many people from Brazil over here, but that's just because i think it's good to have all kinds of people from all over the world on here, not because I think it should be a 'competition to get the most users' -
Yeah, at its best (small-to-medium size well-moderated instances with a local communtity) fedi is a great experience in a way that Bluesky won't ever be (nor is it trying to). It's too bad that we're not at the stage where Brazilians -- or people of any nationality -- can find that easily.
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@jdp23 @jonny @laurenshof ohh, you're using misskey, awesome!
anyways, threads, maybe ghost soon, and flipboard are part of the fediverse because they implement activity pub, that's all, or that's how I think of it at least. Hang on, bridgy fed is back online? very interesting, I know it was shut down at one point, but dk what happened after that stupid controversy. -
Bridgy Fed is up, my Bluesky account is at @[email protected] ... the brouhaha got resolved by making it opt-in (a good outcome in my books). Personally I think the attempts to limit the definiton of fedi to ActivityPub are gatekeeping: there have always been multiple protocols. And it's ahistorical too: the term "fediverse" started getting used in 2011 and ActivityPub only got adopted in 2017! But even for people who do want to define it in terms of AP, if Threads and Fliboard are part of the fediverse then so Bluesky should be as well.
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@jdp23
@laurenshof @esoteric_programmer @jdp23.bsky.social
I basically agree, though apparently they do not? I am not a huge fan of the name "fediverse" but at least it is searchable, "bluesky the atmosphere" is giving me, well, stuff about the atmosphere and the sky -
Personally I think "the ATmosphere" is a great term for "social networks written on top of AT Protocol" ... agreed that though that it's not particularly searchable. We'll see if they stick with it.
Anyhow, yeah, the way I look at it Bluesky's part of the ATmosphere as well as the fediverse -- just as some blogs are be part of IndieWeb as well as the fediverse. Two things can be true at once! By contrast WhiteWind (AT-based blogging engine), Smoke Signal (events), and FrontPage (link aggregation) aren't yet connected to any other fediverse platforms as far as I know, so at this point I'd say they're in the ATmosphere but not the fediverse.
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Inken Paperreplied to jonny (good kind) last edited by
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] idk it reads like fashbook's saccarine bullshit about whatever "Meta" was supposed to be.
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jonny (good kind)replied to Inken Paper last edited by
@crashglasshouses
@jdp23 @laurenshof @esoteric_programmer @jdp23.bsky.social
I'd be super interested in seeing what it would take to run an instance out of alignment with main firehose... like both adversarially and like if you just disagreed with their moderation. It seems like the platform would dominate in all meaningful ways, but im curious what that looks like since last I looked, things have certainly changed since last year -
Yeah, there are other AppViews that use the Blusesky Relay, and it's technically possible to run your own Relay, but nobody's doing it yet as far as I know. In general their interop stuff is at a very early stage and I don't think they've fully thought out the adversarial issues, my guess is that they'll need the ability for PDS's to block Relays, Relays to block AppViews, AppViews to block PDSs and probably other AppViews.
AT seems to me like a decent platform for building all-public networks (like Bluesky basically is -- they hacked in DMs, but didn't use AT for that). Of course that's not what makes fedi interesting to me, and the all-public assumption is baked in deeply enough to AT that it's not clear it'll ever change. Also, Bluesky is sooooo dominant in the current AT world that it's not clear there will ever really be critical mass to keep it from being a completely-captive protocol. Time will tell. In any case though I don't see it as affecting the question of whether or not it makes sense to think of Bluesky as a fedi instance.
And @[email protected] totally agree that Paul's post is bletcherous marketing speak, trying to spin the reality that right now the ATmosphere is 99.9% Bluesky. There is a lot about Bluesky I find really annoying! Then again there is a lot about Mastodon I find really annoying (remember when Eugen described Threads adopting "ActivityPub" as "a huge victory for our cause?) so that doesn't disqualify Bluesky from fediverse membership.
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i think that's much more Eugen than it is the system we call Mastodon, which is not just made up of Eugen. -
Sure, and Bluesky's more than just Paul. I was just using that as an easy example of of the many things I find annoying about Mastodon. My point is just that projects doing annoying things (and people associated with a project saying annoying things) doesn't in my mind have any bearing on whether or not they're part of the fediverse.
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@jdp23 @crashglasshouses
Totally. TBC I wasnt disputing that part, I just hadn't heard that term they were using, like instead of aligning themselves with the broader distributed social web Paul was characterizing it as being part of the bluesky-atprotocol-extended-universe, which like whatever he gets to say what he wants but its also illustrative of like prior conversations about not engaging with prior art, which is also what it is, they dont have to come play if they dont want to -
Yeah, of all the arguments that they shouldn't be considered part of the fediverse, "they don't see themselves that way" is probably the strongest (if true).
Also I hope I'm not coming across here as saying that Bluesky is great or should be trusted. They've got their own problems (including anti-Blackness, who would have predicted), they've got enough venture funding that it's really hard to imagine them finding a non-exploitative business model that works, and they were founded by Jack Dorsey after reading Mike Masnick's "Protocols not Platforms" which talks about why a protocol-based approach because it meant that platforms wouldn't have to ban Alex Jones (and while Jack's not involved any more, they replaced him on the board with Masnick). etc etc etc.
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Indeed, it was a splash of cold water! Dan's now updated FediDB stats to include the CSAM instance baraag.net and Russian propaganda bot farm pravda.me, so fedi numbers show a significant increase ove the last month! PROBLEMS SOLVED!!!!!!!
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