Lots of great updates in the latest Mastodon release, but I am particularly excited about this.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
While I just made a mini thread hypothesizing about government run activity pub.
I think that you don’t have a very good idea of how knowledge and resource poor most *local* small governments are. Something on the library or school level 100% could not run something like this. It would need to be on a much larger scale - state level at least, and it would HAVE to be well budgeted and overseen/regulated -
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
You know what would be even worse than an Internet controlled by a handful of corporations? An Internet that is controlled by a large and powerful state.
I know how poorly funded these community services are, but wouldn't it be fair to say that the reason that they are so poorly funded is because they became synonymous with "something that only poor/destitute people use"?
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Ah you are one of those people who will trust some random tech bro with no accountability over elected officials and well trained regulatory officers.While yes, part of the issue with underfunded libraries is how people view them, but adding MORE to their burden without them already having the money and infrastructure in place is just going to end in disaster…
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Raphael Lullisreplied to Raphael Lullis last edited by
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
Local libraries are poorly funded because people just think that paying for the convenience of commercial services is better. This gets exploited by corporations who offer "free" things and hide the true cost because they can profit from the data.
The idea is to flip this on its head. Make the cost explicit. Get local communities to figure out the best way to support themselves. Give them back agency and stop waiting for magical solutions from above.
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Raphael Lullisreplied to Raphael Lullis last edited by
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
It might even be that whatever system will have carved out exemptions. But these exemptions and designs should come bottom up, and not controlled by some bureaucrat in Washington who has no real Skin in the Game.
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
> Ah you are one of those people who will trust some random tech bro
That's strike 2. Can you please stop creating strawmen and assume good intentions?
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Once again you have some weird idealised ideas of how local governments work.
Grassroots bottom up ideas are great in theory, but not so great in a majority of the real world.most local governments could barely tell their backsides from a hole in the ground when it comes to this kind of stuff while most state governments probably already have 2-3 people on staff who have worked it all out during lunch
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Raphael Lullisreplied to Raphael Lullis last edited by
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
> but adding MORE to their burden without them already having the money and infrastructure in place is just going to end in disaster…
The opposite. There can be no disaster if solutions are implemented independently and at a small scale.
Bear in mind, from the beginning I am saying that these would be secondary solutions. If one library tried this and fails, no big deal, perhaps a coop can come in its place, or a company donates the funds required...
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Leaving something like this up to each individual town is going to leave A LOT of people behind with no or substandard services that make musk look like a genius.
Expecting random people with the knowledge necessary to pick up this sword and spearhead projects in their towns ignored the fact that most people are too busy trying to survive and can’t put in the work that would need to be done.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
My dude, I KNOW your intentions are good but you are ignoring huge swaths of reality in your proposals, and pointing out your biases is not saying you don’t care, but that maaaaaaybe you need to reassess and rethink things, perhaps take a deeper look into yourself and where/how you are building your assumptions from.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Like, fuck, dude.
I know I’m being pessimistic and I really don’t mean to piss on your general ideas. Something like this very well could work for a small subset of large areas with the necessary ingredients. But it WILL NOT work for a majority of towns, villages, and cities. And it would leave far too many people behind or with substandard options -
@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
> Leaving something like this up to each individual town is going to leave A LOT of people behind.
1) You got hung up on one possibility and you are treating it as an absolute/universal solution.
2) Whatever number you have for "A LOT", it is certainly lower than the *current* number of people w/o access to the Fediverse.
If, e.g, 80% of people pay and 20% are exempt is sustainable for everyone on Earth. When ~2% "donate", we get this small village.
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
It is still better than the status quo.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
It’s naïve and cruel to leave something like this up to small local governments when there’s better options *right there* just because you have a bias against larger level governmental bodies.
No, they ate not perfect, far from it. (That’s where your grass roots projects can actually help btw) but they are infinitely more prepared to make something like this work for everyone on an equal footing
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
Like… if the top 10% of wealth holders actually paid taxes etc on par* with the middle 50% of the population none of this would even be an issue, but that is a MUCH larger systemic problem than some piddling social media site
*On par means that they pay the same percentage on their money. Which would be like a sneeze to them as they already could never spend even half of what they have and even notice
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
I am not "leaving to the small governments". I am saying the larger bulk of the problem would be solved by making costs explicit and to let a *healthy market* emerge, where you can have individual service providers and independent consumers.
The "local governments" idea only came up as ONE possible alternative to account for the case where you argued that "paywalling would leave people behind". They would handle exceptional cases, not the core system.
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
But it’s NOT a proper option.
Some disabled person out in the middle of nowhere who depends on social media for their support network is not going to get a better option through their local government library if paywalled out, because as I’ve said, it wouldn’t be able to do something like that.So that person would still be left behind.
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
We could be here forever talking about how none of these problems would exist if we had systems that avoided concentration of power and capital, but can we go back to focus on the "how do we make this sustainable and universally accessible?" specific issue?
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@Alien_Sunset @stefan @deadsuperhero
Okay, but if this support network is so crucial and the work it is doing is so viable, *surely* it will get enough people to fund it?
How is this disabled person *today* getting access to the Fediverse? Why do you think that making the costs explicit would automatically get rid of charities/sponsors/generous people?
It seems like we are talking about the same thing, but you have a preconceived notion that one entity should be able to answer for all?
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@raphael @stefan @deadsuperhero
I mean, really this is the type of thing way beyond what a couple of randos on masto will ever be able to even dent.
Throwing around ideas in poor Stefan’s mentions is cool and all, but anything that would even have a chance needs way more structure and input from a way bigger and diverse knowledge and experience base.
(And significantly fewer tech bros and ‘entrepreneurs’ than you are thinking)
