"Your kids are not leaving the church because you didn't train them enough. Your kids are leaving the church because you trained them well enough to develop a sense for truth and justice."

pamela :flan_butterfly:

"You let them read the words of Jesus, and they got it. And they've recognized that the church doesn't seem to be interested in those words."

"They're not leaving because they don't know the truth; they're leaving because they do."

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP88UwgkB/

If you look around you can find a long version talking about how white evangelical churches encourage racism, and this clip also shares the thought that people think you leave the church for something outside of it, and why that's wrong.

I think those of us who have left Christian evangelicalism have usually gone through a long, heartbreaking process of watching it diminish, depending on circumstances...from something holy and unquestionable, to something holy but mismanaged by well-meaning people that do their best, to something that's flawed but on balance good, to something fundamentally flawed but salvageable, and sometimes slipping all the way down to a vehicle which recites decent values but primarily does harm.

At some point along that slide, you look at yourself and what YOU'RE doing. And maybe you're doing missionary work or facilitating adoption but you learn how they're harmful and find yourself trying to defend something you know is wrong instead of seeking to stop it. Maybe you're covering up something that should have been public. Maybe you're watching people being pushed away from what you know they need to live.

Maybe you're being slightly dishonest about the things you know to evangelize more effectively.

Maybe you're adding up pros and cons on your fingers, trying to convince yourself that the church is better than nothing. And then you start thinking... that kind of reasoning has no business in this

If it were right, it would FEEL right. If it were a force for good it would FEEL good. You'd be proud to share it. You wouldn't be watching it harm people and doing NOTHING to help them heal.

And then one day where your faith in the church should be, there's just dust.

Gergely Nagy 🐁

@pamela sooo much this.

I come from a family big on Tradition, with a long line of pastors, and other church people. I spent a decade in various christian schools. I was a believer, for a little while, even considered joining that traditional line at some point.

My trust started to crack in late high school, slowly, but it still held... until one day, in religious studies class: we had a book of questions & answers, "what do you believe when... blah blah blah"-style. Teacher asked a classmate (a good friend, and the DM of or RPG group): "what do you believe when...?", and when he asked back: "what I believe, or what the book does?" - that is when my world shattered.

Not because of this reply, but due to the teacher's unhinged fury. With all the little cracks amplified, my trust was gone, and with it, my faith. Over the next few weeks, with the rose tinted glasses gone, I went over all the shit I've seen over the years. All the betrayals, all the brainwashing, the grooming, the abuse, just to have more and more power. I was disgusted, suddenly realizing that words and actions were in stark opposition.

Took many years to get to a stage where I don't lash out on anyone trying to talk religion with me. Three decades later, it is still hard not to, and I still feel profoundly betrayed, because breaking up with the church also meant losing my religion.