I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it was worth bringing here.

!!__NORA__!!

@matt Certainly not to the same extent, but, yes absolutely

Matt Campbell

@noracodes Because they think we're out-of-touch elites? Or something else?

ghostcatte

@noracodes re: the use of "computer toucher" for tech people even though nearly everyone who uses a computer technically touches it -

i kind of like this feature? the analogy to wizardy feels like it implies something special - like i have some mystical aptitude that some people simply never could acquire, which feels like how some Tech People really do view it.

i think anyone *can* do it, if they are interested in learning. so we're all computer touchers, some of us just know more about it

!!__NORA__!!

@matt I don't think it's that broad; the common sentiment is along the lines of "if you know about computers, your opinion on whether or not software is good/usable isn't worth considering," and so forth. Like the knowledge of how computers work makes us unable to see how "normal" people are affected by them. It's *sometimes* true, certainly...

ghostcatte

@noracodes (I realize in the DnD sense that it'd be more accurate to say Sorcerers imply mystical aptitude and Wizards involve study but I think the lay person would hear Wizard and think of some other popular media where there's something special that makes you a wizard aside from studying stuff)

!!__NORA__!!

@ghostcatte oh yeah, i definitely intend for it to imply that; most people think about it that way, even though you and i know it's likely not true.

packbat is a social construct

@noracodes I'm really interested in what the rough equivalents of "cars burn gas" and "you need to set your e-brake if you're parked on a steep hill" are for computers. :neoCatThink:

(resisting the urge to explain what a transmission is :neoCatDizzy: )

!!__NORA__!!

@packbat please, explain! i love learning about things from you :3

"the car burns gas" is, ofc, the original phrase that inspired this whole thing; in the context of fedi, it's "websites are text that comes from other people's computers". more generally, it's the idea that every operation is copying; this helps people understand a lot of security things, why DRM can't work, etc.

for setting the e-brake, there are a few analogues, but the big one i think about is backups. people hate being told they should make backups, and talking about 3-2-1 and what counts as a backup always feels like pedantry, despite being really important.

tsk

@noracodes This touches on one of my pet peeves but I won't burden your thread with a long reply. Today's computer literacy rant:
https://infosec.exchange/@tasket/113456694048852742

!!__NORA__!!

@tasket yep. i'm with you on this one tbh

packbat is a social construct

@noracodes "every operation is copying" is such a good point, thanks!

so, in a trivial sense, a transmission is just how you get the spinny out of the engine and into the wheels. however, it's often advantageous to be able to change the gear ratios between engine and wheels. (it's called that because if you have two literal gears meshing together, the gear ratio is the ratio between how many teeth they have.)

internal combustion engines really don't like to run too slow or too fast. there's a relatively narrow range of engine RPMs between where they have enough momentum to avoid stalling and where they lose power due to issues with friction, timing, other stuff. by changing gear ratio, you can stay in that range at very different speeds. in low gears, the wheels spin slower than the engine crankshaft; at high gears, they spin about the same speed or faster.

that said, mathematically, power is force times speed. the same RPM in a higher gear will provide less force to move the car.

!!__NORA__!!

@packbat ahhh ok cool! that makes a lot of sense, thank you

Passenger

@noracodes

This is absolutely true. I've experienced this too. I think it may be that cars are just a much older technology, and people will feel the same way about computers in a hundred years.

I feel that a certain amount of this is on us, though: maybe not as individuals but definitely as an industry. We're far more sinister and far less consensual than the car folks are.

For instance, there's no car equivalent to "you found a workflow you like and now Google have decided to end-of-life a crucial component of it" or "the utility program you taught yourself to use got bought by a crypto company who decided to run ads on it." There are equivalents like that for car mechanics, certainly, but not for the car end users. They just get a car and it works for as long as it works. It's theirs. They're not going to go out to the garage one morning to drive to work and find that someone has changed the dashboard layout.

What do people do when they don't feel safe? They stop exploring.

I think that's what's happening here.

Dave "Wear A Goddamn Mask" Cochran :donor:

@noracodes and yet, that is overwhelmingly not the case and i don't know how to change it.

did a whole talk about it, largely fueled by data from this study - https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ - which was a drastic eye opener even for me, and i'm cynical as fuck.

it's even worse with the younger generation, who often don't even understand what a "file" is anymore. how do you even start generating literacy when your audience doesn't see a need to accept the value of letters?

Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️

@noracodes Also important: knowing that driving cars causes pedestrian deaths and exacerbates climate change. A level of literary with cars has massive socioeconomic implications.

Ditto with tech.

Hugo Slabbert ⚠️

@noracodes as you described "computer toucher" honestly "technomancer" came to mind.