They keep trying to convince us the #Democrats are the good ones.

Tariq

And we keep seeing evidence to the contrary.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/31/bill-clinton-criticised-for-saying-israel-forced-to-kill-gaza-civilians

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@rzeta0
Flipside: Donald Trump has repeatedly said he would like to expand the genocide by supporting the annexation of the West Bank, deporting all Palestinians who are legally in the US, and giving Netanyahu the larger munitions Biden has been withholding, because he is openly Islamophobic. The people around him talk about "bouncing the rubble" on Palestinian children, and his own kids talk about "cleaning out" the native population of Gaza to build waterfront Hotels.

Meanwhile, Kamala Harris has repeatedly called for a "ceasefire", and the Biden administration has laid out a 30-day timetable for de-escalation after the death of Sinwar.

It's not ideal, but it's night and day between them: you don't have to support every Harris policy to vote for her, just a desire to protect our democracy and marginalized groups from Trump.

If you don't want to listen to a disabled queer person though, you should at least read what actual Palestinians have to say...

https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/arizona-palestinian-arab-muslim-and-progressive-democrats-and-community-leaders-statement-on-presidential-election/

https://zeteo.com/p/kamala-only-official-to-call-palestinian-america

Tariq

@Raccoon

calling for a ceasefire is just for show

you know that

i know that

Biden and Harris could easily stop the genocide. Stop the funding, Stop the arms, Stop shielding Israel from the UN/ICC/ICJ. Start sanctions.

What's worse, a maniac who pretends to be your friend (Harris), or a maniac who is transparent about hating you (Trump)?

I wish all this energy put into berating critics of Harris went to actually creating democratic pain for the fork-tongued Dems.

https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/113/404/086/755/397/780/original/14528efc736a41bc.png

Tariq

@Raccoon

these are the Dems we see

they ban Palestinian voices at the DNC

they call peace activists "antisemitic"

and the openly mock dead palestinian children pulling faces ...

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@rzeta0
I'll have to watch the whole thing, but I think a part of it is unfair: most people cover our ears when walking right by someone screaming into a megaphone, even people we agree with, simply because they are so loud. While yes, I was incredibly frustrated with the Democrats not bringing in their numerous supporters of Palestine for the ceremonies, I don't think that's a direct indication of opposition: there is a real need, during a convention, to have everyone rallied around the candidate. Previous elections where that hasn't happened have been disastrous.

Reminder that these people were at the forefront of the "uncommitted" movement, at the time, and there was a real concern that if they were given too much screen time, they would say something to divide the party against Kamala Harris. There has also been a very palpable embrace of antisemites and queerphobes by members of the Peace movement, throwing our most important allies, queer people and Jews, under the bus for little gain.

(Continued)

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@rzeta0
And let me be clear, none of this is an endorsement of what they did, none of this is good, and as much as I want to remind people that Kamala Harris has been talking about the need for a ceasefire for the past year, I also feel that the administration has not been aggressive enough...

But again, not being aggressive enough is not the same as not supporting something, and certainly isn't the same as it being a no-go.

Conversely, if Donald Trump is elected...

Let me just ask you because you seem so sure of this: what even is your game plan if Donald Trump is elected?

What do you think we are even going to be able to do against a president who is not only aggressively supporting the genocide on the simple basis of hating palestinians, but openly talks about shooting protesters?

Because I DO have a plan for pressuring for deescalation in Gaza if Kamala Harris is elected, but at this point, if Trump is elected, I don't see how we can do anything but move on and try to protect our own lives.

Tariq

@Raccoon

You asked for my opinion regarding Trump.

He won't become president by himself.

A large number of Americans will vote for him.

So America is the problem, not Trump.

And they will have to learn the hard way - as history sadly tells us is periodically necessary.

I fear the USA has years of pain ahead. Sadly the rest of the world will suffer too.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@rzeta0
And my counterpoint is that we can still turn this around: the frustration with the two-party system is at its peak, as is the frustration with the situation in israel. Under Harris, we have a real shot at changing both of these things, through grassroots efforts like ballot measures if nothing else. Under Trump however, the Peace-in-Palestine movement is effectively dead: the queer people who have been coming out and fighting be too busy dealing with our own rights, and the Trump regimen will be completely deaf to the concerns of the average citizen in general, as they dismantle the democracy, let alone people who they obviously radically disagree with.

The frustration is very reasonable, but the amount of cynicism and this attitude, which is effectively just giving up on both of the US and Palestine, is not.

I cannot understand the level you are at that you would honestly accept this total failure condition rather than vote for a candidate who is merely not aggressive enough in this one way.

Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:

@rzeta0
But again, you haven't really answered my question.

We know exactly what we are going to do if Kamala Harris gets elected, we know exactly how we are going to do that and why it has a good chance of working, and we have the people ready to go and do it.

What is the plan if Donald Trump gets elected? Because that's a completely different situation. Is it to pressure other countries to take on Palestinian refugees as the killing campaign bears down? To try and get them out of there as the bombs that Biden has been refusing to give Netanyahu begin to fall?

What is your actual game plan here? What do you think we can realistically accomplish under Donald Trump?