Something about starter packs that I think gets lost when they're discussed on Mastodon:

Stefan Bohacek

@mastodonmigration @ryanrandall I think we're pretty stuck until either Mastodon gets proper reply controls, which is apparently on the roadmap right after quote posts, which are being worked on now.

Or, possibly, someone sets up a GoToSocial server with a nice front-end, like Phanpy, and markets itself as a community without too much focus on being anti-corporate and federated and all the great things most people don't care about.

Stefan Bohacek

@mastodonmigration @ryanrandall

If I was a startup type person, and/or had the money, this is what I'd be doing. It's definitely not too late for another social media network to come in and attract people away from Bluesky.

But the window for the fediverse as it is right now is pretty much closed, for now.

Jaden

@mekkaokereke black voices need to be amplified in this app that's for sure. I trying

The Sleight Doctor 🃏

@mttaggart @kims @mekkaokereke In terms of its UX the fedi does have a way to go.

But Bsky is "bad" 'cos it's a shady, billionaire-owned, VC-funded, data-hoovering corporate behemoth just waiting for its userbase to grow enough - and be entrenched and captive enough - for the next phase of the enshitification cycle.

Even if by every objective measure Bsky was the best social media platform ever, some would still rather throw all their tech in a compactor and go live in a ditch, than feed it. ‍️

Amber

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] this is where I shill a project I have no affiliation with but admire greatly. @[email protected] & @[email protected] have been working on https://github.com/Letterbook/Letterbook. At least from my conversations with them they are focusing on community features like better moderation tooling. The stuff we need now to make this place more inclusive and welcoming for a variety of audiences. I encourage developers of all colors to join projects that aren’t just mastodon. The community can very well place pressure on mastodon by working on alternatives with features we need. Nobody should sit here waiting on mastodon to provide them for us.

C++ Wage Slave

@stefan @mastodonmigration @ryanrandall

Suppose that followers-only toots couldn't @ anyone, even if they were sent as replies. That would stop them from being used to harass marginalised people. Would it take away anything that people legitimately need?

Stefan Bohacek

@CppGuy @mastodonmigration @ryanrandall Oh, this is a great idea! You should definitely reach out to the Mastodon team on here or via a GitHub ticket. (Definitely tag me if you do, happy to give it a boost/thumbs up.)

Stefan Bohacek

@CppGuy @mastodonmigration @ryanrandall

"Would it take away anything that people legitimately need?"

Maybe this could be a bit more permissive in only allowing you to mention your own followers.

Taggart :donor:

@ApostateEnglishman @kims @mekkaokereke

I usually don't do this, but the FUD around this company on Masto is ridiculous.

Shady,

I can't think of a single company that's been more forthcoming about their structure, funding sources, or intentions.

Billionaire-owned

Nope. Bluesky PBC is owned by Graber (estimated net worth $5M) and the Bluesky team.

VC-funded

Yes it is. If your position is that all VC-funded companies are bad, well, that's a position you can take. It condemns a lot more than just Bsky.

data-hoovering

The ATProto data is public, as is their client, so you can see what, if anything, they're tracking.

corporate behemoth

It's 20 people.

Look you don't have to like Bluesky, but don't just make stuff up.

Stefan Bohacek

@puppygirlhornypost2 Yes, thank you! I think I've seen this in the past, but haven't kept up with the development.

But you are right. I completely understand the situation Mastodon is in right now, with the lack of resources, etc, but this is also about which features have been prioritized over the past 8 years.

@mastodonmigration @mattly @ryanrandall @jenniferplusplus

Stefan Bohacek

@puppygirlhornypost2

GoToSocial may not have a fancy front-end, but you can at least prevent people you don't know from replying to you. Again, priorities.

@mastodonmigration @mattly @ryanrandall @jenniferplusplus

Amber

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] yeah. I think mastodon has had enough time to "adjust its course" I think people should lean towards other implementations. The mastodon core contributor team reminds me a lot of xfree86. It’s not that mastodon is lacking contributors it’s that they’re keeping contributors out.

Amber

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] there are so many forks like glitch-soc, chuckya that prove what’s possible if mastodon kept an open mind. It’s time to make an Xorg of our own lol (and this isn’t even that much of a hyperbole - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFree86 specifically the section regarding the fork and dissolution of the core contributor team)

Mastodon Migration

@dave @ErickaSimone @ryanrandall

This does seem to be the crux of the problem. It comes up all the time. Mastodon has a reputation for being hostile to black people, and this is something that is very hard to reverse. Of course, it will be impossible to reverse if we don't try.

Ryan Randall

@nullagent @mastodonmigration @ErickaSimone All really good points, and thank you for pointing out what the clumsy "sundown town" analogy misses!

One part of what I didn't write, but what "sundown town" as a comparison conveys to me as a well-intentioned, often semi-clueless white guy, is that it's an example of how racism can exist in ways I'll rarely be in a position to directly perceive.

(Like, I grew up in St. Augustine, FL, and only really started learning the many civil rights struggles there decades after I'd moved away. "Nice" white people there certainly didn't talk about that with white elementary kids, although I'm sure my Black schoolmates had already had many "talks" about it with their parents.)

Anyways, I think you're absolutely right about the causes here on the Fedi being a mix of technical and social/cultural/economic reasons.

I'm increasingly thinking that what ends up broadly appealing is whatever comes after Mastodon. Maybe Bonfire?

Stefan Bohacek

@puppygirlhornypost2 Yes, there are definitely some great alternatives that are in many aspects better.

I guess that's really just one part of the solution. Finding someone willing to create a community built on one of these platforms, promoting it, supporting its growth, all that feels like a very difficult challenge.

I know I won't do that. I'm happy to contribute a bit, but it would be a full-time job for a whole team of people.

@mastodonmigration @mattly @ryanrandall @jenniferplusplus

iAmAnEngarneer

@nullagent @mastodonmigration @ErickaSimone @ryanrandall are there any prospects of mastodon earning money and not being a hobby other than direct instance subscription? This was a problem in the early internet that never really got solved other than advertising which i'm here to avoid. As a wise bus driver of mine asked me in 1994 "so how do you make money on the internet." I never had an answer.

Andromeda Yelton

@mastodonmigration @mekkaokereke Some hypotheses as to why bsky has been more effective at this (I'm a dev but I'm white so take this with many grains of salt):

* they put some visible effort into making sure that their early user group included Black people, at least one of whom did a lot of recruiting. That wasn't always smooth BUT it means there's a founder effect & a Black population there that can support culture/community. 1/

Amber

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] yeah I never meant to imply it’s gonna be easy. I just wanted to show historical examples of it happening in the past. I do think it’s the way forward to address the problems earlier in the thread. People are incentivized to develop for bluesky because it’s open about development. Mastodon feels like it squashes development, I’ve been seeing a bunch of old GitHub issues for mastodon on my feed lately. Someone was complaining that Eugen took her pull request, remade it and then added the feature without crediting her. I think this is downright hostile towards people wanting to develop for mastodon and the fediverse (a lot of people new to fedi think it’s only mastodon and I find I have to explain to a lot of new users on remote mastodon instances transfem.social runs sharkey which can communicate with mastodon but isn’t mastodon). I really want to see that disrupted. Imagine everyone referring to email as "gmail".

Andromeda Yelton

@mastodonmigration @mekkaokereke * Mastodon is weirdly hard to build on top in that the community has strong hostile reactions to projects that violate The Mastodon Way; this makes it open source but kinda not really?? Bsky is a lot more open to "someone built a thing!" and if you don't like it you just don't use it.
2/