There's something I've been thinking about for a long time.
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Except for all the Americans who do want to contend with it, who would be considered white by the supremists. Some people avoid thinking about it, but not all. Most even, would dismantle white supremacy even at their own expense, if they could. Yet how does a lone individual dismantle a system that they don't control? You need collective action and organizing, privately so you can't be targeted.
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@cy is that what you're doing right now? Maybe I'm missing something. But it sounds like what you're doing is "not all white people". Which is fine I guess. But it's definitely not an activity that's likely to dismantle supremacy.
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This isn't exactly private, and I doubt you want to work with me, but yeah I'm always looking for ways to work together to dismantle supremacy. What isn't likely to do that is when we use the language of supremists, accepting their broadly defined arbitrary terms, in order to shame our own allies.
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@cy yeah I agree with that. So can you help me understand why your message to me implying that I'm not giving white people enough credit serves to create better allies? Keep in mind I don't know who the fuck you are and you don't even have a face and name. So help me understand how your message serves to connect us as allies.
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jonathanpetersonreplied to Marco Rogers last edited by
@polotek I'm sure there are some, maybe even many white folks who are that naive. But many of us realize that the political structures in the electoral college and makeup of the house and senate that were designed to protect the political power of slaveholding states have been subverted to keep that structural racism in place all over federal and state regulations and laws. I don't think ANYONE thought BLM protests were going to change the DNA of American policing.
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Marco Rogersreplied to jonathanpeterson last edited by
@jonathanpeterson I think that's a pretty naive statement tbh. In hindsight it's easy to let people off the hook and say they knew what was going on. But it's just not true.
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jonathanpetersonreplied to Marco Rogers last edited by
@polotek Maybe so. The bigger question is have they learned and how many? I live in Atlanta, which makes me an outlier, blue bubble in a red state, and a white progressive in a a city run by POC. The summer of BLM moved me quite a bit closer to the ACAB line after having my son tear-gassed and arrested for walking across a street with his hands in the air. I saw the governor rolling MRAPS and the National Guard down my streets in a show of force.
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Marco Rogersreplied to jonathanpeterson last edited by
@jonathanpeterson I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I believe that many lessons were learned. The only thing I took issue with is the idea that people always understood how difficult it is to truly change institutions. I just don't think that's true. It's one of the harder lessons to learn. It's disillusioning and disheartening. If you manage to come out on the other side, instead of giving in to despair, you're better prepared for the fight.
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Honestly your message is great, and I really respect it. The only thing I'd change is saying "many White Americans don't want to contend with." It goes from making people who sympathize with you feeling attacked, to making people who don't sympathize question their role. And yeah you don't know who the fuck I am so you can flip me the finger and ignore me just as well. Maybe we'll run across each other again.
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@cy There are many things that you could've engaged with in regards to this topic. The fact that this is the one you chose is something you should really spend some time considering.
I'm not interested in placating people who read what I wrote and felt attacked. I think it's a problem. It's just not one that I care to take responsibility for. Those people are going to have to find someone else to help them with that particular barrier in their journey.
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Jenniferplusplusreplied to Marco Rogers last edited by
@polotek as far as I can tell, most white people are very careful not to think about the white supremacist system at all. We sure as hell don't talk about it. It's basically taboo.
That said, also as far as I can tell, most white people do understand at some level that their whiteness will not protect them from that system if they work to oppose it.
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It's not your responsibility, just it might be your loss. What would you rather I engage with? I agree White Americans are being used as foils, and we can't change that without dismantling white supremacy. Nothing to contribute there. And people do need to do more than exclaim loudly that police brutality is bad. Thus, the collective action and organizing...
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@cy I wouldn't rather you do anything. I said I think they're were better choices given your started goal off increasing allyship. I mean in this case, your message didn't get you anything you claim to care about and in fact resulted in quite the opposite.
But then again, I think I can see where the disconnect is since you seem to think it's my "loss". As of I'm sitting her lamenting the fact that I don't get enough opportunity to placate white people.