Launch of Social Web Foundation
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@Adam @evanprodromou @ohmallory
as someone who doesn't enjoy:
a) admins snooping on messages
b) admins being forced (or pressured) to turn over messagesit'd be more private and pseudonymous than email.
it's better to have a well built feature in an easily adopted system
the people who I'd share my email with are NOT the people who I'd DM on Mastodon.
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@risottobias @evanprodromou @ohmallory
a & b) admins snooping on or turning over messages is exactly why your private messages shouldn't be on a public ActivityPub server at all. It should be a completely separate system that you can self-host for privacy (like we can with email). I really like the idea of just a contact form on the profile that uses the existing email notification system to send a private message. -
Risottoreplied to Adam Lein last edited by [email protected]
@Adam @evanprodromou @ohmallory
that would mean people know an email to spam you (if you reply, or you learn theirs, that they might not be willing to share)
and frequently for users that email is also their login/recovery identifier.
where their social... frequently isn't (surprise!)
there /might/ be a reason for why the two are different and /successful/ that way.
Chesterton's fence is the idea that you don't take something away before understanding why it was there in the first place.
this is a case where that applies.
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@risottobias No it wouldn't. They would know your fediverse address, and type the message into a form which then gets privately sent to you.
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@Adam that's one-way and pretty useless.
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@risottobias But it can go one way the other way too! Thus making it 2 ways. Your [email protected] address is public already anyway. How is sending messages to that via ActivityPub any different from sending via SMTP? SMTP already has the advantages of a huge spam-blocking ecosystem, multiple encryption capabilities, & vast client/server software options. Inventing a new protocol that does the same thing isn't going to garner that kind of ecosystem overnight.
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Risottoreplied to Adam Lein last edited by [email protected]
@Adam uh... email is NOT E2EE.
and social media isn't going anywhere.
you seem to not understand the difference between user interfaces.
people /could/ use email to send videos or images or tweets, but they use things like youtube, instagram, or X for a reason - the interface is different.
if you want a one way blog comment submission form, cool. that's low tech and doesn't have the features people want (neither does email)
they became successful even though you could /technically/ do them over SMTP (and delta.chat does)
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@risottobias The user interface can be changed to anything you want when it comes to open protocols like ActivityPub and Email. What features do people want that can't be done with email? I've seen typing indicators, read receipts, E2EE, video conferencing, 1-click reactions, etc. all implemented with email. The reason Youtube, Instagram, X do things with proprietary protocols is for user control and abuse. That's what we do not want, right?
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@Adam I think you just won't understand.
things like delta.chat /do/ try to do that via email.
the rest of us try to do it on something purpose built that's not as misconfigurable.
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@risottobias I'm trying to understand... How is "send message from 1 person to another" a different purpose than "send message from 1 person to another"? How is "type in your username and password" more misconfigurable than "type in your username and password"?
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@Adam look at the inbox, feeds, search, reply, threading, and more.
reddit has a different threading mechanism.
they're different and successful at being so.
zulip, discord, and slack have named threaded discussions (that random users can't create new channels without permissions)
email is an unorganized, unpermissioned mess, with no access controls
things like forums and AP also have /public access/ to previous things (e.g. like a mailing list, but with, again, better threading and UIs)
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@Adam you are right in that they're all kinda the same,
but it's the nuances that make them great or make email awful
also, it's the mental context.
slack is for work,
discord is for games,
mastodon is for toots,
blog contact is for journalism,
email is for bills,
youtube is for documentaries, -
@evanprodromou please consider shared services to lower total cost of ownership and increase quality of service
My pet peeve is https://shlee.fedipress.au/2024/call-to-action-fediverse-media-server/
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Evan Prodromoureplied to :PUA: Shlee fucked around and last edited by
Thanks! I’ve seen this idea around a bit. I think there are some interesting P2P media technologies like IPFS that could be helpful, too. But I’ll add this to our potential projects list.
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:PUA: Shlee fucked around andreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evanprodromou I think this needs safe stable design so ipfs feels like a distraction. Maybe for backup/HA failover