I've had a lot of people ask how BlueSky compares to Mastodon and the Fediverse.

Dr. ir. Brian R. Pauw

@FediTips but the main reason I hear people join bsky is because it’s easier. Not sure #average_user is too clued in to the inner workings, or even cares about it all too much.

Bill

@txtechnician @caos @FediTips @effariwhy

End to end encryption has been a problem in email that still is not solved. The problem is the key distribution.

I don't know how Signal, etc. do it but it would seem publishing the public key in the user profile would solve e2e for at least DMs.

Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋

@FediTips @xChaos @janxdevil It could be that these 12M+ people just don't agree that it is going down exactly the same path as Twitter, Facebook etc?…

Fedi.Tips

@mackuba @xChaos @janxdevil

You brought up MAUs as a reason to be on Bluesky.

I replied that if MAUs are your main concern, you can get even higher MAUs on Twitter etc.

As for going down the path, it's a matter of fact that Bluesky has adopted the same structure as Twitter, Facebook etc. Pretending it hasn't doesn't change this fact.

Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋

@FediTips @xChaos @janxdevil I didn't bring it up, @xChaos did

maple

@FediTips The thing that is missing from your diagram is that while #Fediverse servers CAN communicate with each other, not all of them DO. This is most noticeable when you follow a #hashtag - If you are on a large, well connected instance you will see many (maybe almost all) posts containing that hashtag. If you are on a small instance, or an instance that is not well connected (for whatever reason) you will see only a small percentage (maybe close to 0%) of the posts made using that hashtag.

In situations like that, from the user's perspective the #Bluesky / AT protocol is superior, because with the centralized server and corporate relays pretty much anything posted using a given hashtag will be seen by all those who follow that hashtag.

I'm not saying we all should move to Bluesky. I'm saying that this is a problem that needs to be solved by whoever writes the software for #Mastodon and similar Fediverse instances. And if there already is a solution but few instances are using it, what is that solution and where can you find a list of instances that are already using it? I understand there will always be some blockages because instance operators don't want traffic from certain types of instances, but I'm not talking about that, I am talking about cases where a post with a hashtag doesn't reach your instance because no one using your instance is specifically following the user that made that post.

Fedi.Tips

@mackuba @xChaos @janxdevil

Ahh apoloiges My mistake, sorry.

Fedi.Tips

@w_b @txtechnician @caos @effariwhy

Social networks in general aren't good for privacy, as far as I know none of them have E2EE. It's much better to use encrypted messaging systems such as XMPP with OMEMO, @briar etc.

There is discussion of how to bring E2EE to Mastodon at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/19565 but it hasn't been updated in some time.

kryptec

@maple @FediTips my understanding is the current solution to that is to sign up to one or more of the many relays that exist. Though some are restricted.

Fedi.Tips

@caos @effariwhy

BlueSky is not a non-profit, it is owned by Bluesky Social PBC which is a for-profit corporation.

In October it announced that it had partially sold itself to Blockchain Capital, and the same announcement said they had appointed a blockchain/cryptocurrency expert to their board:

Fedi.Tips (@[email protected])

This is why I have been trying to warn about #BlueSky. BlueSky has just been partially bought by a cryptocurrency company "Blockchain Capital" and appointed a blockchain / cryptocurrency expert to their board: https://bsky.social/about/blog/10-24-2024-series-a The board member is a bitcoin researcher involved with NFT analytics. BlueSky describe the tie-up with Blockchain Capital as a "natural partnership" and says the blockchain company has "a uniquely deep understanding of our decentralized foundation". (via @[email protected])

social.growyourown.services (social.growyourown.services)

This is in addition to their CEO being a blockchain/cryptocurrency person:

Jay Graber - Wikipedia

(en.wikipedia.org)

AFAIK the board only has three people, so a majority are from blockchain.

Fedi.Tips

@kryptec @maple

There are various ways to make any Fediverse server see a lot more of the Fediverse:

Using relays, groups, directories and scripts to quickly expand a server’s view of the Fediverse | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse

An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse

(fedi.tips)

Fedi.Tips

@Mik3y

If you use a managed hosting service you can do it for a few dollars a month including someone doing all the technical stuff for you:

Pricing | Masto.host

Pricing for Masto.host fully managed Mastodon hosting plans. Starting at $6/month.

Masto.host (masto.host)

Fedi.Tips

@doc

You might not care about the workings of something, but you might care about the effects of something. No one cares about how a medicine works, but they care if it stops them being sick.

The structure Bluesky has chosen for its tech and its business is very likely to repeat all the problems that Twitter, Facebook etc suffer from.

The things that make people leave Twitter & Facebook now are going to get repeated on Bluesky with its current structure. Then they'll have to move again.

Massimiliano Musina

@maple @FediTips ok, but having all the data stored in a single, owned, instance (like BlueSky) would potentially expose users to an unknown future... as it happened with the current "big tech". I rather prefer fix and improve what is not working in the fedivese, which is the real alternative. I wish a future were we always own data, regardless of the app/technology we use

#fediverse

maple

@FediTips @kryptec Right, but as a USER I have no way of knowing if the instance I am using has implemented any of those. How about publishing a list of such servers? And if you have no way of knowing which servers are using any of those various ways, then how is the user supposed to know? A solution that few instances are using and/or where users have no way of knowing if their instance (or any other) is using that solution adds a level of complication and annoyance that you don't have with the big corporate platform.

Fedi.Tips

@maple

The idea isn't to have a listed set of features, it's just to provide more posts visible to the instance.

Also, the user themselves can implement things like following groups which totally bypass whatever their instance can see. If you follow a group, you will see the same posts no matter which instance you are on. It's the same if you follow a particular set of accounts, the act of a user following an account changes which posts are visible to the user's instance.

Fedi.Tips

@skamu @maple

Yeah, this is another worry. BlueSky's valuation is approaching 1 billion dollars, and part of that will be the user data they expect to hoard.

"I wish a future were we always own data, regardless of the app/technology we use"

I think @timbl has been working on something like this for some time with the Solid project?

maple

@skamu @FediTips That is great and I hope you are able to fix and improve what is not working, but right now this is still a problem and it is something that would cause ordinary users (like me) to consider switching to Bluesky (or to just start with Blueskay in the first place). You have to realize that most users just don't care if they own data (probably better than half don't even seem to care about privacy, which totally blows my mind) so saying that they should use the Fediverse because of some philosophical argument about ownership isn't going to carry much weight, if they can receive most or all of the posts they want to see on another platform.

maple

@FediTips Well the problem with groups is that you first have to know that a group you are interested in exists, and then chances are if you do find one it's not specific enough. Say I am running some piece of software that is giving me trouble, I can subscribe to a hashtag with the name of that piece of software, which (hopefully) will only show me posts related to that software, although that is not always the case, for example if I want to see posts about Joplin (the note taking application) I could use (hashtag)Joplin and hopefully I would get mostly posts about that software and not Joplin, Missouri or Scott Joplin the composer.

But will there be a group about Joplin? Probably not. And also, as I understand it, groups follow users, not hashtags. And in that case you can get inundated with posts that are not about the topic of interest. I have tried to follow groups a few times and generally speaking I've had to turn them off almost immediately because they flooded my timeline with uninteresting and irrelevant posts.

Chao-c'

@FediTips @mackuba @janxdevil All I said is that many Bluesky users are quite nice and they have chosen the platform because lot of people went there and because it was straightforward to use.

I did my best, but Mastodon is simply not user friendly enough for most people. It offers some quit advance features for power users, but at the same time, it lacks certain basics, which newbies would take for granted. The don't care about the architecture of the network, as long as they don't have to think about it.

We need to keep on trying and one day, Bluesky may seem boring to some and they will move here...