Types of replies you can expect when talking about #ActivityPub:

Jenniferplusplus

@hrefna this post needs a content warning

(Joking. Mostly. There's a lot of levels to this)

Hrefna (DHC)

* <Insert rant about elon musk>

* Well why don't you fix it?

* ::takes a toke:: it's not about that man! It's about decentralization of control! No one cares about <not seeing their replies or whatever other thing is the consequence of what is being discussed>

* No no, you are just _misunderstanding_ the protocol! Let me explain it to you! <misses the point you made>

* That's not a problem, we solved it on <a largely incompatible network that has like a few thousand users>

2/

#ActivityPub

Hrefna (DHC)

* No! Having standards will demean what is beautiful!

* Your proposal will enable mass abuse! (proposal is something like "maybe activities should be transient")

* But AP allows us all to talk together!

etc, etc etc.

Like… there's this continued disconnect between what people _think_ is AP and what is _actually in_ AP, but also there's this weird failure to parse what the concerns being brought up actually are.

3/3

#ActivityPub

Jon

@[email protected] yeah it's interesting. I get it when it comes from guys whose careers and/or egos are tied to AP -- it's unhelpful but understandable (although to be clear most of the people who created AP *don't* have this attitude). But it's so much broader. It makes no sense. IT'S JUST A PROTOCOL!!!!!!

And it's so self-defeating! How can it improve if we don't talk about and try to understand its weaknesses?

smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

@jdp23 @hrefna

I guess the thing is that AP is no longer a protocol, but so much more, same as "fediverse". Vague ethereal social phenomenon. They are terms that are in the eye of the beholder.

A mystical, mythical mist hanging over a meadow in the morning.. sometimes taking concrete tangible shapes, only to dissolve right away again.

Half-joking, this.

Jon

To be fair, AP is general enough that with the right vocabulary it could well be used to describe a mystical, mythical mist hanging over a meadow in the morning ...

Then again, it would probably just show up as a solid gray rectangangle on most implementations because of some decision Mastodon made about how to handle Notes and articles back in 2017

@[email protected] @[email protected]

smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

@jdp23 @hrefna ha, yes. In many directions its a rainy day.

aroom

@smallcircles @jdp23 @hrefna the fediverse should be protocol agnostic

Jon

Yeah, the fediverse has always been multi-protocol. And yet, not everybody sees it that way. As I say in the section on "Why choose a narrow, gatekeeping, ahistorical ActivityPub-only definition of the Fediverse?" in https://privacy.thenexus.today/is-bluesky-part-of-todays-fediverse/ :

Oh well. If Evan and Eugen want to choose a definition of Fediverse where history stopped with Mastodon's 2017 adoption of ActivityPub, erases earlier Fediverse history, and ties the Fediverse's success to a protocol that has major issues and hasn't moved forward significantly since it was standardized in 2018, they can do that.

"The Fediverse" means different things to different people.

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]

smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

@jdp23 @hrefna @aroom

SocialHub itself did/does not bring a definition of the Fediverse, but has a focus on evolving AP. Currently it is only custodian of the FEP and favors a bottom-up grassroots process.

3-Stage Standards Process: Guaranteeing an open and decentralized ecosystem

Open ecosystem, open ecosystem, open ecosystem In various channels where the Standards Process is discussed there’s mention of a 2-stage structure that goes like: FEP → W3C. As I proposed many times before (like here, a…

SocialHub (socialhub.activitypub.rocks)

For a couple of years there was another hub called Feneas (Federated Network Association started by @jaywink) with a discourse forum who specifically saw Fediverse as multi-protocol and e.g. including of XMPP and Matrix besides ActivityPub.

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unexpectedteapot

@jdp23 that was a good read. The part about Bluesky being useful as a counterweight for Threads and not being duped by typical Silicon Valley nonsense like most Fediverse influencers [and some developers], is well put. Thank you.

Jon

Glad you liked it, thanks very much for letting me know!

@[email protected]