I have a very long, possibly book-length take on LLMs that has been brewing since May 2015 but basically: wow humans love to take something that works extremely well in a certain narrow domain and then bend over backwards to insist it will solve every ...

Darius Kazemi

@evan @blaine @evan @blaine the use case you are describing is inside the very narrow band domain that I feel pretty positive about

Although I don't think knowing how to code is any more empowering than knowing how to say, verbally persuade people. The fact that it feels like magic and that verbal persuasion (as one example) doesn't is... a problem imo

Chris Mabry

@darius is it a natural human tendency or an effect of capitalism?

Put differently: if we weren't all focused on squeezing more profit than the last quarter out of everything, would this phenomena exist or not?

Darius Kazemi

@evan @blaine your response is a bit of what I'm railing against here. We all agree we've made a machine that makes excellent pancakes. Where I make a sour face is the claim of empowerment through automated excellent pancakes

blaine

@evan @darius I'm super here for it! ️

In my experience, the coding (though less so software architecture) part of LLMs works pretty well, but my point is really that the hard parts of building software aren't really about the code.

Evan Prodromou

@blaine @darius tl;dr LLMs can do one thing well, code generation. But that one thing lets people do a lot of other things they want to do.

Darius Kazemi

@chrismabry I think pre capitalism we also saw the tendency towards wanting easy totalizing solutions. It feels lazy to even point this out but look at religion, politics, and so on. Which all predate capitalism by millennia

Darius Kazemi

"LLMs are like magic"

I agree on the grounds that basically everything is magical if you think about it hard enough.

I'm probably more literal and serious about this statement than the reader imagines

Evan Prodromou

@darius @blaine I would hypothesise that software has more emergent properties than pancakes, but I'm probably not being creative enough with my pancake usage.

blaine

@evan @darius my reference point for this is every non-profit that's interacted with a tech person who's built a tool that "helps" the non-profit. The first pass is easy, trivial even. LLMs are great at technology at that level. It's the long-term social stuff that's hard; "The Team is the Unit of Delivery" and all that.

"sudo make me a magical 500,000 cell excel spreadsheet but no way to manage the complexity"

Kathe Todd-Brown

@darius "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws

Really should say any technology not currently within your understanding... just 'cause YOU can't explain/understand it doesn't mean that it is not understandable.

Darius Kazemi

@ktoddbrown I'm actually being more literal than that!

morgan

@darius not to mention folks ready to profit on another 'cure-all'. I don't know enough about AI but that's the general feeling I get...

Darius Kazemi

@blaine @evan yup. This stuff is basically optimized for demoware

What do they famously say... "The last 10% of a project is the easy part"? Something like that

But also contextual autocomplete is truly a wonderful, time saving thing that has changed how I write code

Dan Bruno

@darius [approaching a server farm] Wait…do you feel that? The higher elements are active here

Darius Kazemi

@danbruno just another day in the Geofront!!!

jcoglan

@blaine @evan @darius the fallacy at the core of a lot of this stuff is the idea that the hard part of making software is writing the first draft of it. which... it's not that programming isn't difficult and making it more accessible isn't good, but once you become passably ok at it you just start finding lots of other problems you previously weren't aware of

infinite love ⴳ

@darius everything is magic if you don't understand it

jcoglan

@blaine @evan @darius part of this is that programming, like a lot of other things, has the property that if you get good at it, the scope and complexity of your ideas for what to do with it grow

you also find out that growing and maintaining programs is a different sort of problem that writing the first draft

you also find out that a lot of the effort of making software is not in writing code, it's in thinking and talking to other people about it

Darius Kazemi

@jcoglan @blaine @evan agreed. there's a reason I picked "verbal persuasion" as my example of a thing that should be seen as every bit as magical as genAI

Darius Kazemi

@trwnh I'm being more literal than that here. Personally I think it goes: thing seems magical. Then you understand it and it seems banal. Then you understand it more and it's like "wait this is fucking magic". Cycle continues with infinite regression, which is itself magic