@kamalaharrisforpresidentnews Many people on fedi who are the exact kinds of people the harris campaign is desperately trying to reach, young queer people, run non-masto software, precisely because their needs failed to be met by the "one-size-fits-al...
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Babs E. Blue #DoNotComply on last edited by
@BlueWaver22 following this line of reasoning when you're talking with people who have very specific lived experiences, this sounds like "I know what's good for you better than you do, so listen to me and do what I say"
I'm telling you I support the campaign and I understand how people work. For the exact same reason you're frustrated that I'm seemingly not getting the point and clear logic of what you're saying, the people who most need to hear it will not listen; that you think I don't get it
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Babs E. Blue #DoNotComply on last edited by
@BlueWaver22 I understand that you think you know who I am, and you're feeling compelled to build up an some idea of who I am to argue against.
In 2016 I lived in Washington, so my vote for president was irrelevant, and also, I was pretty focused at the time on meeting my basic needs, so didn't have the spare energy to engage with politics.
This is the reality of the people that would most benefit from progressive policies.
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Babs E. Blue #DoNotComplyreplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@katanova OK, but there are other ways to reach people than this platform....so let's agree to disagree on the strategy and I did not mean to come off as telling you what's good for you...but as you know....GOP have continually voted for candidates that hurt them...3rd party voters hv continually shot themselves in the foot with their "protest votes." That's all I'm saying. Purity politics is never an answer...I'm a long time political researcher, strategist etc...it's not fear. Thks for convo
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Babs E. Blue #DoNotComply on last edited by
@BlueWaver22 As a longtime political researcher, have you ever conducted research on individuals who were formerly committed anarchists who later commit themselves to supporting a political party?
This is my life. I know what would have reached me when I didn't think anyone cared, and every authority was inevitably abusive and exploitative.
I know what the reasons are to fight now. Those talking points are the ones to preach to the choir.
I'm talking about preaching to the people who need it.
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Babs E. Blue #DoNotComplyreplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@katanova Ok, thank you and I'm glad to get your perspective and I know it sounds harsh...there's just never been a more consequential election so I'm sorry if I'm stuck on that point but I want your views and am happy we had this discussion. I'm not one who isn't open to looking at things a different way. Thank you for giving me a different perspective and engaging. That's what we need more of in this world in general!
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Nathan Salwenreplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@katanova Hi, I hear your frustration here. I want you to know that, as a random listener, I appreciate that you are involved now, and I understand why that might have been different in the past.
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Babs E. Blue #DoNotComply on last edited by
@BlueWaver22 Is a democracy that fails to meet people's needs worth fighting for? People need to believe that things are going to get better to feel like it's worthwhile to put in the effort. It's true that right now, we're focused on trying to prevent things from getting worse
I know that it's important. These are the skills I have. I know how to reach the people who feel the most hopeless.
We cannot persuade hopeless people to engage with the world through fear; we can with empathy and hope
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Nathan Salwen on last edited by
@NSalwen Ah, thanks. I appreciate that.
Everyone has a story. It took me a long time to understand my own story.
Most people need a little help to understand their own story. I think the key to reaching all those undecided voters is to help them understand their story.
The path is the destination: a world where people feel understood, cared about, and where they feel like their voice and efforts matter. We can only reach that world through making efforts to make it real here and now.
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Brian Hawthornereplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@katanova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews Katanova, do you mind if I chime in with a supportive parallel view from progressives unsatisfied with the Democratic Party?
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Babs E. Blue #DoNotComply on last edited by
@BlueWaver22 I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. I think this is where politics matters, and what makes the world worth living in; sharing experiences and perspectives, and arriving at some shared understanding, or at least an appreciation and respect for someone else's perspectives.
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Mark Kraftreplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@katanova @BlueWaver22 *"Is a democracy that fails to meet people's needs worth fighting for?"*
What have the Romans ever done for us?!
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Brian Hawthorne on last edited by
@bhawthorne I welcome it. As a fellow dissatisfied leftist, I'm sure there's a lot you have to say that I'll agree with.
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Mark Kraft on last edited by
@KraftTea You're trying to convince me. I'm already a supporter. I'm going canvassing in 110 degree heat tomorrow.
The question isn't a question I want people to answer to me because I personally think that our society isn't worth fighting for.
It's a rhetorical question, think it through to understand how to reach the people who feel hopeless.
Again, "you'll lose everything you care about" isn't a good motivator unless it's directly preceded by empathy, a connection.
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@katanova @KraftTea @BlueWaver22
Katanova and people like them is why i bother with the dems at all; lectures repulse me
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Guest on last edited by
@HarbingerOfSalem Thank you for supporting my argument, that empathy is the path to convincing those not already convinced.
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Brian Hawthornereplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@katanova @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews Thanks, I didn’t want to interrupt, but I did want to make an observation or three about change. Quick warning. Apparently I had a lot to say. Apology for the verbosity.
First, I want to make clear that I completely understand that democrats are 100% focused on the next 94 days, and ensuring that Harris is our next president. I can only imagine how stressful it must be re-organizing an entire campaign practically overnight. I honor and respect the work that all of you are doing to bring this about, and I am working toward the same end of defeating Trump. President Biden should be applauded for his commitment to country, and Harris should be applauded for stepping up to serve.
However, Katanova and I and many others bring experiences that are likely foreign to party members. I am not a member of the Democratic Party, and have never considered myself a democrat. The Party aspires to be a big tent, where all are welcome. It’s a nice conceit, but in my 40 years of voting, the Democratic Party has always been a few steps behind the American people. The core of the party is older and more conservative than the rank and file. And even the rank and file of party members are more conservative than the young and progressive voters that Harris is courting.
In every election in my lifetime, the Democratic nominee has always shifted to the right for the general election, apparently trying to take a bigger chunk out of the independents who hold a plurality. Why? Because Pew and everyone else who charts political affiliation always show independents in the middle, with some leaning democrat and some leaning republican.
That is not the reality of the independent electorate, as the GOP discovered. How did Trump get elected in 2016? Instead of shifting towards the center, he shifted right. His campaign correctly understood that any centrist Republican-leaning independents were already in the bag, and so he also wanted the further to the right independents. And he got them.
I fear that the Harris campaign will shift right in a vain attempt to win conservative white male voters in swing states, who will likely vote dem if they vote at all, and who are unlikely to get excited by Harris even with a rightward shift. But to the left? Oh my goodness! With a shift to the left, the Party is unlikely to lose center right votes who want to avoid Trump, but the upside is activating and exciting an entirely new generation of progressive voters, as well as a bunch of us old progressives.
If the old guard of the DNC has their way and pushes Harris to the center right, I fear that we will not only lose this election, but any hope of taking back the Democratic Party for the people instead of the oligarchs.
We have a two political party system in the USA, and plenty of political theorists and researchers have show why that is stable and nearly impossible to break with our electoral system. But the identities and platforms of those two parties have changed dramatically within my lifetime, most recently with the ascent of neoliberalism with the Clintons.
Over the past 4 years, President Biden has started the swing away from neoliberalism and towards progressivism, an unexpected but welcome shift. As a long-time party-watcher, my instinct says that the power within the Party is trying to pull it back into neoliberalism, and is filling President Harris’s head with bad advice about the need to shift right.
Democrats have an opportunity today to make Harris win in a landslide instead of by a 1% margin. Welcome all of the leftist independents into your party, or at least make us excited about voting for your party, instead of just voting against your opponents.
Will socialists and anarchists join the party? Of course not. But show those of us on the left that you acknowledge our existence, and that you value the votes of leftists, progressives, and anarchists as much as those of center-right white males in swing states.
If anyone says you can’t win swing states with this strategy, ask them to rerun the analysis based on registered voters you could excite and activate, not “likely voters” you are trying to get to begrudgingly cast a vote against your opponent.
Do you want the old Democratic Party that struggles to distinguish itself from the GOP, or do you want a vibrant New Democratic Party that sweeps the GOP into the dustbin of history where they belong? Stasis or change? Those are the options. Please choose change now, or we may never have the option again.
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Brian Hawthorne on last edited by
@bhawthorne Very well said, and echoing a lot of my own thoughts on how to build a lasting progressive coalition.
The center-left of the democrats should be leading the efforts to hold the ground we've already made.
The progressive and leftist arm of the party should be charting our future.
Turn the fascist ratchet around, and work towards the future instead of the past.
@kamalaharrisforpresidentnews -
Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@KraftTea As well, and much more directly responsive to your point:
People need food, water, shelter, and companionship.
Roads, money, and bureaucracy don't meet people's needs. They are a tool we use to meet those needs, but for anyone whose needs aren't met with those tools, their societal necessity is not a compelling argument for supporting our society.
Convince these people by identifying unmet needs and meeting them.
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Kat Valentine Allwellreplied to Kat Valentine Allwell on last edited by
@KraftTea As well, and much more directly responsive to your point:
People need food, water, shelter, and companionship.
Roads, money, and bureaucracy don't meet people's needs. They are a tool we use to meet those needs, but for anyone whose needs aren't met with those tools, their societal necessity is not a compelling argument for supporting our society.
Convince these people by identifying unmet needs and meeting them.
