Ugh.

Schykle

@notthesolution I had to dig through the fosstodon team hierarchy chart to find their social link. https://kevquirk.com/blog/on-virtue-signalling

Not The Solution

@schykle Just finished reading it, this piece is incredibly reasonable and he's absolutely correct to say that a lot of the mental gymnastics to prove guilt-by-association stuff on these platforms tend to be highly toxic.

Very telling that the response is to double down on the same tactics and not even link the (incredibly mild, let's be real) post in question.

Schykle

@notthesolution That's what I understood as well. I feel like in their position as the head of a massive social media instance, they see so much of it and it gets tiring.

I've been told I enjoy bombing children because I grabbed fries from McDonald's... That seems like the kind of discourse this post is aiming at. I don't really understand what makes it so incredibly bad.

Jens Finkhäuser

@onepict @SilverEagle I keep getting back to that there are two kinds of liberals: those that primarily want liberties for themselves, and those that want to liberate others.

FOSS is essentially based on libertarian values. We tend to call the first kind of libertarian who is also into FOSS a fossbro.

‍️ I don't think it's much more complicated than that.

Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:

@jens @SilverEagle It's why I'm leaning more into a definition of the commons, like communalism .

I'm coming to the idea that liberalism is conservatism in a hippy dress. There's still a conservative underneath desperately trying to convince you they are cool.

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK

@onepict @jens @SilverEagle

The Fediverse is the first place in 30+ years I've found many folk *both* into FOSS and /also/ actively into left wing politics.

Previous to that most FOSS users I encountered were perfectly happy with capitalism / neoliberalism, particularly the "petit bourgeoisie" kind, and only seemed to dislike GAFAM as they are better at capitalism (often just by giving users slightly more of what they actually want)

Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:

@vfrmedia @jens @SilverEagle Well it was the Fediverse that explained anarcism and why I'd been brought up as one without me or my parent realising it.

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK

@onepict @jens @SilverEagle

the Fediverse reminds me a *lot* of the old anarchist bookshop from the 80s, but with a more international crowd - also compared to the 90s/00s there are way less fake anarchists who turn out in the end just to be libertarian bro types or worse, go hard right wing when the govt clamps down on party drugs use (happened to too many ravers I knew)

Anna e só

@vfrmedia @onepict @jens @SilverEagle You saying that made me realize how much the fediverse shaped (for the better) my perceptions of FOSS (i.e. https://notapplicable.dev/ode-to-free-software) in my early adulthood. My local FOSS culture always seemed somewhat distant from deeper political matters, even though the history of FOSS in Brazil is intertwined with the history of public administration and public education (and their digital transformation).

FediThing 🏳️‍🌈

@onepict @jens @SilverEagle

For whatever it is worth, I put my tuppenceworth in:

FediThing 🏳️‍🌈 (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] You've got two things: 1. Some random nobody with no power at all says people shoudn't buy a Tesla because the owner is a bigot. You're free to ignore this nobody because they have no power over you. 2. The owner of Tesla, richest person in history with control of the incoming government of the most powerful country in history, seeking to impose his own bigoted policies on vulnerable people in the entire world by promoting and funding far right groups. Why are you focusing on 1 while saying nothing about 2? It's not about Musk "being a prick", it's about his using unprecedented power to endanger vulnerable people.

Chinwag Social (social.chinwag.org)

Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:

This post is deleted!

Sumana Harihareswara

@schykle @notthesolution I understand that it's frustrating and demoralizing when people go to that extreme.

However, what Quirk wrote *seems* to go to the *opposite* extreme, implying strongly that there is NOTHING a company or its owners could say or do that would give him second thoughts about putting money in their pockets.

Sumana Harihareswara

@schykle

When you say "forcing others to make the same choices" - are you equating complaint with coercion?

(I try to be mindful about what products I use but also stay aware that abstention is not necessarily the same as a boycott, as I wrote in https://www.harihareswara.net/posts/2022/speech-to-text-with-whisper-how-i-use-it-why/#ethics ; I also think people who want to make change ought to think about dilution and complaint as useful tools alongside shunning, as I discussed in https://harihareswara.net/posts/2024/categories-bad-home-coalition-theory-of-change/ )

@notthesolution

Passenger

@vfrmedia @onepict @jens @SilverEagle

Ditto this. The "I want to smoke weed but I also want to harass women, and preventing me from doing either is morally equivalent" crowd are so, so tiring.

Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:

@passenger @vfrmedia @jens @SilverEagle

Yeah then men get umbrage when we prefer .

Last time I checked bears couldn't program

On Bears

(www.onepict.com)