I'm hearing some conflicting things about on-platform #Racism and I'm hoping to get a more comprehensive picture.

Vayl Larkin (they/them)

Black Users Only: Why do you still use Mastodon? Would you recommend it to a Black friend and if so, are there resources to help them safely navigate? If you're on your way out, would you feel comfortable sharing where, so I can share? Mostly folks exiting Bsky

Hesitant to ask for free labor and will not be offended if you choose to respond just with hashtags to follow.

Thank you.

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

The biggest problem is simply because there aren't enough Black people here. A related problem is that there is a kind of elitism that makes this unlikely to change. eg. "it's a good thing only nerds know how to use this place, wouldn't it be awful if the rabble showed up" type sentiments.

1/

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

The lack of a critical mass on Black people on the fediverse is related to other problems: there aren't a lot of people who work in trades, people who are poor, people who aren't university educated etc. What we have is a college town. And like many college towns it very tolerant and nice ... but there are also huge blind spots, and gaps.

And this isn't something that can be fixed by being "nice" or "mindful" or whatever. 2/

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

If we want open social media to be a meeting place for people of all class backgrounds, races, religions, and from all over the world that means it'd need to be "popular" ... it'd need to be something that could work for people without a desktop computer who mostly use the internet on their phone.

It'd need to be free for most users and easy to get started. Consider how threads and blueSky have outpaced the fedi mostly due to their focus on these use cases. 3/

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

Of course those corporate walled gardens also have help that we simply can't afford. They have the backing of media. Media has a lot of power in moving people to platforms.

The closest thing the fedi has to a corporate promotional face is "Mastodon" the app, and software development group. I don't feel that this group really cares about serving "the rabble" the vision of a 20-something posting about nail art from her home in the Bronx isn't part of their vision.

4/

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

A lot of people like that the fedi is a leafy suburb, a sleepy college town. They don't want to have the latest "tea" about rappers falling out on here. They can hardly tolerate people talking about sports.

And to me, this is just so short-sighted and sad. Twitter had many flaws but one of its strengths was that all kinds of people participated and this made it special. Twitter was better than the fedi at diversity. 5/

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

In the end I don't know what to do about it.

I hope that with time people will keep ending up here as walled gardens fail. A few more people showed up with the migration from X. Eventually, threads and BlueSky will fall apart because that's market model for such places. And people will move here.

Can we at least pretend like we want them to join us? That's all I ask.

6/6

Vayl Larkin (they/them)

@futurebird @futurebird Thank you So much! This is far more comprehensive than I hoped for and what you're saying makes a lot of sense even from what I can observe.

I'm unhappy being in such an isolationist environment. I'm kind of a background chimera, jobs ranging from sex worker to tech writer, but I'm extremely frustrated that as a white, trans, disabled person I am safe-ish here, (Bsky/etc. are kind of a nightmare), but other people are really not.

Not sure of the right thing to do.

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

I think with segregated spaces a first step to just recognize that the segregation exists. Then think about who benefits from it? How do elitist spaces signal "not for you!" to some people? How do these spaces hide themselves?

Think about what facebook started out as: a kind of dating scheme for Harvard students ONLY. Ironically it was capitalist avarice that lead it to expand.

I'm certain you can find old facebook posts saying "there goes the neighborhood"

myrmepropagandist

@VaylLarkinPoet

And if the fedi ever does get over this bump how loud will the cries of "there goes the neighborhood" be here?

If we are truly classy they will not be loud at all, but frankly I don't have a lot of confidence.

At least such an expansion won't come from pure greed to run up the numbers.

But then maybe it won't come at all. If most people don't *want* this to be a place for everyone it won't ever be a place for everyone.

Martin Owens :inkscape:

@futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet

I have the same feelings about the Free Software cultures I hang out it. As one of the few working class, not university educated programmers it's very clear that there is a pre-thought consensus about simple things like labour, and getting people to do work. A contribution that is easy for a well heeled college grad is a cruel request on a single parent living day to day.

Yet we need diversity, the lack of it eats at our creativity.

Hal Pomeranz

@futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet Spinning off from the main thread here—I agree that Mastodon needs better mobile clients. Handhelds are the way the vast majority of internet users interact. Unfortunately the current Mastodon community seems to be heavily populated by the group that tends to use larger screens.

I’m using Toot! on iOS even though it hasn’t been supported for ages because it’s still waaaay better than the other half dozen or so Mastodon clients I tried first. Selfishly I wish that an somebody with experience in mobile development would revive the Toot! project. I would happily donate to such an effort.

Ryan Randall

@hal_pomeranz @futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet Also a happy long-time user of Toot! as my main way to be on the Fediverse.

I'm also hoping that the groups currently working on what comes "after" Mastodon—especially Bonfire—are taking notes on what makes this particular app's interface so useful.

For me, especially in threads like this one, a substantial usability addition is the "subway map" lines along the left that indicate how the reply thread is organized or branches. (For other software nerds, it's a bit like GitKraken's git branch indicator.)

Kate Bowles

@ryanrandall @hal_pomeranz @futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet

I’m also a long-time Toot! user and mobile only. It’s very different to be never desktop here. But looping back to the original, the college town description opened a window for me. That’s also how I experience BlueSky. Is it a platform feature or a following/follower feature?

Kate Bowles

@ryanrandall @hal_pomeranz @futurebird @VaylLarkinPoet

But racism shows up in all sorts of ways and gets a pass when it looks most benign. I’m thinking about this thread and my part in it: a tough question is asked about racism, someone with lived experience answers about race and widens this out to other cultural access barriers, and whoops suddenly we’re talking about …apps. Me, I did that.

White people find it hard to see something like a change of topic on the spectrum of actions that service racist cultures because the other end feels more obvious. But we turn down the volume on conversations about racism all the time, and we can be on the lookout for this and do better.

What I’m acknowledging is that I learned to pay attention to this because I’m here. I’m not sure I’m learning this on BlueSky just yet.