HOLY SHIT#BCPoli #CanPoli #BCElxn2024 #BCLiberals #BCUnited
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Geoff Bernerreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @douglaspynn we live in an Oligarchy that imitates a democracy. Votes don't express the will of the people here, because mostly property owners vote. And that is not because renters are dumb. On the democracy spectrum, we're somewhat closer than America to democracy, but miles away from what is permitted to the Scandinavian countries. Anyway, I'd rather die than vote for Dix, and the Greens defenestrated their candidate because they're useless. I'll put my energy into other political activities. And no, that does not make the next government my fault.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Geoff Berner last edited by
@Geoffberner @douglaspynn I certainly won't argue against the vast inequities in the system. My argument is simply against the notion that participating (be it voting or spoiling or whatever) in a democracy, which can and must be done in more ways than just in a voting booth, is irrelevant to the outcomes that we see. It isn't. And we are seeing exactly the impacts of citizens wants and fears on our democracy today in BC, as we have many times before with big swings in party politics in this province.
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Geoff Bernerreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @douglaspynn here's the thing, Chris. Look at BC elections. Here is how they work: NDP gets a % of the popular vote that's between 39% and 42%. Every time. When there is one right wing party, they lose with 42. When there are 2 right wing parties, they win with 39. That's it. That's how government works here. Your vote won't do a damn thing to alter that. It's been true for over 50 years.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Douglas In Victoria last edited by
@douglaspynn sure! It can be an action in and of itself. We don't disagree there. Where we seem to separate is over this notion that all parties produce the same government. There is just so much wrong with that statement. It's different than saying you don't like the outcome of either one or that there should be a better alternative.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Geoff Berner last edited by
@Geoffberner @douglaspynn
Last election the NDP received 47.69% of the vote to the BC Liberal's 33%.In 2001 the NDP got 21%.
In 1983 they got 45%
.... I get what you're saying. But you're not really describing something unique to BC. This is how an effectively two-party, FPTP system democracy will function and has for a decades.
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Douglas In Victoriareplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
Yes, reality has proven that the main parties produce the exact same government. It doesn't matter. They are the same, owned by the same companies.
Climate collapse, housing crisis, covid, etc, are all undeniable proof.My mind won't be changed. I won't ignore reality.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Douglas In Victoria last edited by
@douglaspynn fair enough, I won't try to change your mind, but don't be surprised (or take it personally, I hope) if I push back sometimes
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Nick Pilonreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris I know over in AB Nenshi has been trial ballooning “bizarre” as a Canadian adaptation of the “GOP is weird” culture war counterattack, and it feels like an effective adjustment. Maybe ground level spreading “Rustad is bizarre” is a start at herding “normal” BC liberal/united voters away from the cons?
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Lauralee Dukeshirereplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris Uprooted my whole life to escape the IDU authoritarian destruction in AB....Well, at least the weather is still better, here.
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Idealistic Pragmatist :mstdn:replied to Lauralee Dukeshire last edited by
@LauraleeDukeshire we left AB in May. Could have easily ended up in Victoria, but instead ended up in Halifax (my partner was applying for jobs in both places). I can only imagine how angry you are tonight!@chris
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Lauralee Dukeshirereplied to Idealistic Pragmatist :mstdn: last edited by
@IPEdmonton @chris I'm not really angry, more resigned. I've come to believe that if we ever find our way to a sustainable society, it is unlikely to come through our current political system. I'll continue voting ABC, in hopes of warding off the worst of fascism as long as possible. But I'm not expecting "leaders" at the provincial or national level to save us. We'll have to do that by getting to know our neighbours and re-building community through relationships.
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@ NovaNaturalistreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris First past the post systems are designed to establish a two party state. The only sustainable winning strategy is to unite one half of the electorate.
Hubris for the party that believes otherwise.
Tactical voting (eg ABC) is unpredictable and unsustainable. Likewise voter suppression and dividing your opposition.
First past the post is only one better than a one-party state, which is why so few democracies still use it.
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I'm guessing you're new to BC. A relevant history:
1. BC Liberal corruption so bad that the NDP and Greens win election and cooperate to form gov't.
2. Referendum on #proportionalrepresentation is tanked by the NDP. (GPBC Leader Weaver was also clueless.)
3. Mid-pandemic, the NDP break the agreement and call a snap election. They win a majority.Here we are. The NDP have made every problem they inherited from the Liberals, worse.
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Christopher Griffithsreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris We’re most likely going to have a Conservative government here in the Yukon too after our next election. This really makes me fear for what’s ahead for us all.
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@Greengordon @sleepy62 @chris
Life long BC resident here... we have a vastly different view of recent history. Look back to the Christy Clark years. I think many things are better now than they ere then.
The BC Conservative party is chock full of people with some pretty grim views on basic human rights too. -
Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to LA Legault 🍉 last edited by
@LALegault @gemelliz a glimmer of hope
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Geoff Bernerreplied to Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 last edited by
@chris @douglaspynn you're right. I was wrong. Sorry. I should check these things.
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Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸replied to Greengordon last edited by
@Greengordon @sleepy62 simply not true. I remember the Campbell and Clark years extremely well. The NDP has been far frok perfect but if we were still under Liberal rule there is no doubt we would be far worse off in huge ways including housing, the drug crisis, employment and the environment. Indisputable