I see a lot of the drama that is happening between people of color on the platform and the mastodon dev team.

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov @mloxton I don't read it that way. You just sound naive and incurious about why your simplistic way of viewing things hasn't actually succeeded at changing the world yet.

It sounds like it's based entirely on what you've personally seen and experienced. You might consider that there are quiet a lot of other people who are not you. And maybe they've experienced something different.

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@polotek @mloxton I'm curious about why you would think that. Both that I'm incurious or that I haven't seen much? Also what is simplistic? I'd like to understand more about exactly what your seeing and to hear, but if I ask questions I got accused of "sealioning" (new word for me).

That being said, I've experienced quite a bit. Happy to expand if needed.

Also, what is my "simplistic way of viewing the world?". I don't think I've expressed my world view.

Matthew Loxton

@polotek
My guess is that some of the racism becomes tangible because of elements in the structure and design of the app and configuration and policies implemented by the devs. Having more BIPoC people on those teams might help identify those elements and make changes that reduced the degree and depth of racism manifesting itself?

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov @mloxton I didn't say you haven't seen much. I said there are a lot of people who are not you. And your stance seems to be based on what you yourself have seen and experienced. If you're saying you think you've seen enough to speak to the experience of people very different from you, then yes, I'm calling that naive.

Marco Rogers

@mloxton whenever you find yourself thinking that sending Black people into potentially unfriendly environments will somehow solve a race problem, you should probably stop and rethink things.

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@polotek That is not what I was saying, I was saying that I have experienced lots of prejudice in my life and I think that comparing notes is helpful.

Also can you point out to what stance I seemed to have said?

I hate the knee-jerk reactions of others in this thread.

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov nobody is misunderstanding you. You said explicitly "pointing out specific examples is best". That's not comparing notes. That's stating a bias. If you'd like to change that stance, feel free to do so. But please stop treating other people like they can't read.

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov in fact, I'm not interested in this conversation at all anymore. So we can solve your problem problem by just parting ways. Cheers.

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@polotek Really I don't understand all the aggression. And that response was not directed at you, but it was at @mloxton 's dismissive comment.

You, @polotek , I would be happy to compare notes with.

But when I feel like people like @mloxton just is trying to discredit my experiences, I'm going to give him a canned simpleton response.

Also the people lying that I was kicked from servers etc.. that gave me a bad feeling for the whole thread. I've never been kicked from any server.

Matthew Loxton

@yisraeldov
WTF?

What "dismissive comment", what are "people like @mloxton", where the roaring fucksticks did I "discredit [your] experiences"

My dude, either clarify that shit, or fuck all the way off.

@polotek

Yisrael Dov :emacs: :nixos:

@mloxton @polotek Was this not dismissive "OK, and do you have insights to offer on improving the current situation?"

Second reading I could see that it might not have been. Maybe I already had a bad taste from the previous posts in the thread. Could be that you just had the bad fortune of jumping in after others had been trying to discredit me and you got (unfairly) lumped in with them.

But still, I don't think that justifies swearing at me.

Marco Rogers

@yisraeldov @mloxton please drop me from any further replies. Thanks.

Pete🎸🎶🐍📽🎞☮🌍🙂😭

@polotek @itsmeholland @joefox

Okay, so the first two bits of information weren't adequate for you. This is what I mean. You can keep moving the goalposts, and I'll end up pleading with you to accept me by listing the things I think will help convince you that I'm acceptable. I can't win.

My workplace have all kinds of diversity initiatives, and sensitivity training, etc, and I've been in discussion about how I don't believe in race, but I certainly know racism and racists exist...

Pete🎸🎶🐍📽🎞☮🌍🙂😭

@polotek @itsmeholland @joefox

... our literature recommend films which would help understand the viewpoint of oppressed people. I created a watchlist on letterboxd and am working my way through it.

I enjoy reading authors from different cultures and ethnicities, trying to understand the clash of identities.

I try to comprehend the Holocaust whilst also not tolerating Israel's inhumane actions. I've watched many films and documentaries about this subject.

I call out racism where I see it.

Pete🎸🎶🐍📽🎞☮🌍🙂😭

@polotek @itsmeholland @joefox

At work I volunteered to be in a working group to understand empowerment, and how the flow of power can be blocked by social conventions, traditions, habits, prejudices.

I see most empowerment that I can be responsible for to be getting out of the way, removing impediments where I can, to allow others to step up for themselves.

Pete🎸🎶🐍📽🎞☮🌍🙂😭

@polotek @itsmeholland @joefox

My pinned posts, the content of which I often post in reply to discussions, says that most suffering in the world comes from people believing that some people/groups deserve to survive, thrive and be happy, more than others.

This is the root of sexism, racism, misogyny, homophobia, nationalism, patriotism, fascism, genocide.

I feel this is a key insight that it took me many years to reach. Perhaps it's nothing, but to me I felt I'd grown.

Pete🎸🎶🐍📽🎞☮🌍🙂😭

@polotek @itsmeholland @joefox

I don't know what else to say.

But I know, with all my experience and relationships, I would never dream of telling someone they don't deserve to be heard.

The only qualifier I have is that if you or your group's survival, flourishing, or happiness, is predicated upon another person or group's destruction, decline, or unhappiness, then you, or your group, are wrong.

Erin Kissane

@polotek @blogdiva

Open Collective *Foundation* shut down very abruptly; they were the fiscal sponsor for several fedi projects and hundreds of others (for passersby, this meant that those projects could take money without incorporating as nonprofits).

Open Collective Inc is fine, they make the software/platform that provides infrastructure for project finances and are neutral about which fiscal sponsor a project uses.

(Source: My most recent project was fiscally sponsored by OCF.)

Marco Rogers

@pete see Pete. That wasn't so hard to tell me what you think you did that constitutes "working hard to understand". It was messy and you also went on some other tangents that I didn't ask about. But somehow you attempted to deliver some useful info.

Unfortunately you also doubled down on the fact that you've made up your mind about some key things and you're unlikely to budge on those. So I'm not sure exactly what it is you wanna talk to me about.

Marco Rogers

@pete you're allowed to think whatever the fuck you want about racism and white supremacy. But I don't feel obligated to debate with you about it. So tell me. Now that you've gone through so much anguish just to get a moment of my attention, what exactly is it that I can do for you?