more developers need to hear this

always tired

@ryantownsend Code as in, within some certain framework?

Ryan Townsend

@project1enigma it depends on the platform...

Heroku, for example, natively supports: Node.js, Ruby, Java, PHP, Python, Go, Scala, Closure.

With open-source buildpacks for frameworks within each language (e.g. Express.js, Ruby on Rails, Laravel)

Worth watching the 60 second video demonstration here to give you an idea of how simple it can be: https://www.heroku.com/php

Ryan Townsend

@project1enigma literally 60 seconds to deploy something and get a full CI/CD pipeline with staging environments, promotion to production, instant rollbacks (all via a button), monitoring, log streaming, managed databases/SSL, auto-scaling.

No need to configure web servers, load balancing, OS security, containerisation.

It's more costly than something like EC2 when looking at purely infra, but when you factor in salaries, wasted time, risk, it's far cheaper (except at huge scale).

Mia ‘Meetings? I Abstain’ Luna Tearmoon

@ryantownsend

I have bad news: if you remember doing LANs back in the 1990s, you are probably old.

this made me feel my bones creak (DR-DOS 6, assembler inlining in Ada and Pascal to interact with the Novell NetWare driver through INT 21h)

Ryan Townsend

@mia I don’t understand what this has to do with my Mastodon post?

My suggestion is just for commercial projects to avoid K8s (given they’d need staff to manage it) and use PaaS, unless there’s a very good reason not to (e.g. massive scale or niche infrastructure requirements).

Wolf480pl

@ryantownsend @grumpasaurus
> a DevOps team isn’t going to advocate moving away from Kubernetes/IaaS/bare metal

Unless the DevOps team is overworked / burnt out, they can barely keep the existing stuff running, and the devs are making a new app that needs unusual stuff, and most new apps in the company die after a quarter - I think in that situation, many DevOps would advocate for running that one app on Heroku if that's what the devs already know.

though that's an extreme case I guess

Ryan Townsend

@wolf480pl @grumpasaurus fair comment, but I meant completely moving away (given they’d be out of a job)

pandora

@ryantownsend won’t read through the entire feed because every post has a CW… like wtf. I am not clicking on ever single post here. There is no reason for a CW

Ryan Townsend

@pandora I didn’t add one ‍️

Erik Ableson

@ryantownsend A missing piece of this discussion is that “scale” goes both ways. It’s not just “number get bigger” but also how small can you go. If nothing’s happening, then running a K8S install is probably overkill. If the load varies wildly, then maybe it’s useful but as many have pointed out, most sites could be served from a minimal VPS and still meet SLAs without breaking a sweat

Ryan Townsend

@erik absolutely true.

To go a step further though: if something is small enough that a minimal VPS can serve it (assuming it's a commercial project and not some DIY/personal project) it probably belongs on a PaaS as wasting time on maintaining a VPS probably doesn't make sense either.

Chuck it on Heroku, Render, Vercel, Netlify... whatever, something that requires zero setup, next-to-zero maintenance, scales-up if needed and can be handed to another developer at a moment's notice.