I just sent the final proofs of the #ActivityPub book to the editors at O'Reilly.

John Francis

@evan how about something that facilitates customer-side cooperative association to counter enshittification and monopoly? Generalized and dynamic global disintermedition between producers and consumers.

Should keep you busy a while.

Evan Prodromou

@everton137

Evan Prodromou (@[email protected])

'Prodromou, however, has strong words for any organization looking to enter social media with a new decentralized social media protocol. “I’m not interested in any protocol besides ActivityPub,” he says. “Anyone working on brand new protocols in 2023 should stop immediately. They are going to do more harm than good."' This may be surprising for people who have known me for a long time. I've generally been supportive of trying new protocols and tools.

Prodromou.pub (prodromou.pub)

http://evanp.me/2023/10/06/activitypub-the-socialcg-and-the-social-web/

Evan Prodromou

@johnefrancis I was joking. I already have too many projects.

Evan Prodromou

@everton137 I've got a lot going on over the next few weeks, but I'm going to try to find time to write an explainer about BlueSky. I agree, we probably need some better guidance out there. I don't really want to give them any oxygen or attention, but I'd rather have this stuff clear.

everton137

@evan I'm quite disappointed to see so many Brazilians migrating to Bluesky. But I don't blame them. I see the logic to be where the crowd is if you don't know the importance of points you raised.

Unfortunately it appears only a few people, as compared to the big tech social media, are aware of it.

It was more disappointing to see people continuing to use x tho.

Evan Prodromou

@everton137 Absolutely. You saw that we have had 2M new users since August on the Fediverse, right?

FediDB, Fediverse Network Statistics

FediDB is a cutting-edge service providing detailed statistics and insights into the Fediverse network.

(fedidb.org)

We're seeing a lot of growth here.

bryan newbold

@evan @everton137 bummed that you have such a negative public take on atproto and Bluesky and see it as antagonistic and "dangerous".

I have a huge respect for ActivityPub and the folks involved, including you. I think we are all working towards the same goals, there is no final word on protocols/architecture/governance/regulation in this space, and that there is a lot of room for collaboration.

bryan newbold

@evan @everton137 even if folks don't trust Jay and the Bluesky board (who are the relevant individuals and stakeholders-holders for the future of the org), we are working in the open and everybody can read and learn from our experiments, successes, and failures. We totally endorse inter-operation efforts like bridgy fed, and collaboration on overlapping needs like identity systems, OAuth, and E2EE.

Evan Prodromou

@bnewbold @everton137

Hey, Bryan. I like that BlueSky, the social network, is an active part of the Fediverse through BridgyFed.

Jérôme

@evan @everton137 our active users are going down however.

Evan Prodromou

@bnewbold @everton137 I moderated some of the language in this thread.

Steve Bate

@everton137 I recommend doing your own research. Some of the points being made about BSky don't appear accurate to me. I see a lot of community involvement in developing alternative UIs and other components of the stack (like tagging). There has been talk about having parts of ATProto standardized at the IETF, but they're waiting until the architecture is mature and proven (unlike AP). As a "losing" protocol, they gained 4MM new users just in the last month. 2x the MAU of the Fediverse.

3️⃣ days without TF incident

@evan @everton137 thanks for sharing. There's a rumour about that BS development of ATproto was to create a way to essentially divest business of moderation safety etc and enable a more "free speech" social media. Do you think that has any weight?

Evan Prodromou

@arichtman @everton137 no.

3️⃣ days without TF incident

@evan @everton137 ok, thanks

Evan Prodromou

@arichtman @everton137 That was a little brief.

The point of ATProto is to be different and incompatible. That's the business model.

Any benefits that come out of that primary goal are secondary. Yes, their moderation system is more distributed. I think there are precedents of doing client-side moderation, like email spam filters, that we could use for the Fediverse.

But the features aren't the point. The point is a protocol that the company owns and controls.

Matt Keeter

@evan I'm surprised to see this level of hostility from you!

I really enjoyed your "Big Fedi, Small Fedi" post, and from reading their architecture docs, Bluesky is genuinely designed to address some of the "big fedi" challenges that you pointed out.

If you believe that Bluesky is inherently bad because it completes with ActivityPub, that's fine, but the level of FUD in this thread is disappointing.

Evan Prodromou

@mjk I care a lot about the social web. I do not want to see its growth stunted by competition at the protocol level at this crucial time.

If you found something untrue in what I said above, please let me know. I'm happy to correct it.

damon

@everton137 you can take a look at these https://atproto.com/guides/faq#why-not-use-activitypub https://fed.brid.gy/docs#compare

Evan Prodromou

@mjk Here are a couple of links to give an idea of how I feel about BS and other proprietary social networking protocols.

Evan Prodromou (@[email protected])

'Prodromou, however, has strong words for any organization looking to enter social media with a new decentralized social media protocol. “I’m not interested in any protocol besides ActivityPub,” he says. “Anyone working on brand new protocols in 2023 should stop immediately. They are going to do more harm than good."' This may be surprising for people who have known me for a long time. I've generally been supportive of trying new protocols and tools.

Prodromou.pub (prodromou.pub)

http://evanp.me/2023/10/06/activitypub-the-socialcg-and-the-social-web/