I really hope the #38C3 call to fight #fascism will also apply to Israel.
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I really hope the #38C3 call to fight #fascism will also apply to Israel. Germans tend to have a very strong guilt complex with regard to the Nazi genocide of the European Jews. But that should not blind you my friends from watching what is going on with clarity and detachment from your national guilt.
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My name is DESPAIRreplied to My name is DESPAIR last edited by
#38C3 Ilegal Instructions: A Call for #Antifascist Action?
https://ps.zoethical.org/t/illegal-instructions-a-call-to-anti-fascist-action/8860
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@how Oh, fighting fascism absolutely does apply to the Netanjahu government. As well as to Hamas.
I've put some of my thoughs on this here. https://infosec.exchange/@andreasdotorg/113752863699838201
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I see two issues with your statement here, and your arguments there:
1. You're mentioning the name of a person (Netanjahu) on the one hand, and the name of a political organization on the other hand. This already is problematic.
2. You state that people who want to #FreeGaza and denounce the ongoing genocide (and the ongoing war crimes of IDF beyond Israeli borders) also want to genocide the Jews. This is totally wrong, and absolutely unacceptable.
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My name is DESPAIRreplied to My name is DESPAIR last edited by
Following up on 1., you could mention IDF on the one hand, and Al-Qassam Brigades on the other hand.
Or if you want to remain on the political side of things you could mention Netanayhu, or the Likud party on the one hand, and the temporary Hamas committee on the other hand (since Hamas leaders are regularly assassinated).
Not all the world recognizes Hamas as a terrorist organization, and as @bbhorne mentioned in the other thread, international law recognized genocide.
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My name is DESPAIRreplied to My name is DESPAIR last edited by
The international recognition of an ongoing genocide in #Gaza accuses both Israeli and Palestinian leaders. So there's no question that both IDF and Al-Qassam Brigades are committing atrocities.
Yet, IDF strategy is arguably genocidal.
This is not a matter of comparing who is worse than the other: it's a matter of stopping this folly and saving lives.
Stop pretending that people willing to stop wars want to destroy the Jews, this is insane.
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My name is DESPAIRreplied to My name is DESPAIR last edited by
But honestly, this is not a place to discuss personal opinions about Gaza nor Israel.
The original intent was to draw attention to the lack of discussion within #CCC, and to provoke this internal discussion, so as to draw some official position from the Club on this.
I can see that, in several instances, CCC leadership has refused to support Palestinian organizations and keeps conflating Judaism with Israel, and any criticism of it with antisemitism.
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My name is DESPAIRreplied to My name is DESPAIR last edited by [email protected]
... and more worryingly, keeps conflating the Palestinian people with Hamas, Hamas with terrorism, and keeps relaying the Israeli propaganda that it is acceptable to kill civilians in order to protect the country.
A reminder of Madeleine Albright answering YES without hesitation to "Are 500,000 dead Iraqi children worth it?"
War is always wrong. People are not States.
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@how On 1: I'm not talking about Netanjahu as a person' I'm talking about the Netanjahu government, which absolutely is an organization. If one wanted to be more precise, one had to name Mafdal and Noam, the two far right extremist parties in this seven party coalition, but of course the other five parties seem to be fine and dandy with the genocide and as much guilty as the others.
On 2: It seems I haven't been precise enough here. "Free Palestine" is a slogan that does very much imply an agenda to destroy Israel. "Free Gaza" doesn't. My apologies to the people who attempted to communicate in a precise fashion here and whom I misread. It kind of underscores my point on why people are hesitant to speak up though, those lines aren't always very clear. I ended up with people in my replies defending Hamas and their atrocities, even further underlining how careful one has to maneuver here.
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@andreasdotorg Why would #FreePalestine mean "Destroy Israel"?
Israel has been occupying Palestinian territories illegally and expanded well beyond their original borders, and are actually aiming to achieve (at least) the territory that the British Mandate of Palestine covered (which is different from what Israel was allocated with by the colonial powers.)
Surely more orthodox Jews would wish for the destruction of the State of Israel than people simply willing to stop the war machine.
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My name is DESPAIRreplied to My name is DESPAIR last edited by [email protected]
I'm waiting to see Israel annex Lebanon and the Southern half of Syria, while Turkey annexes the Northern part while USA annexes North and Central America, and China gets Taiwan back under her arms.
We're on the verge of that kind of change. It would be useful that all of us start thinking about how do we stop this warmongering insanity, once and for all.
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You may have come across this elsewhere but I found it a decent analysis of the German reluctance to address the genocidal elephant in the room: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/germany-israel-support-genocide-is-naked-self-interest
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