Immutable is the future and present of Linux on the server, laptop, and mobile.
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Scott Williams 🐧wrote last edited by [email protected]
Immutable is the future and present of #Linux on the server, laptop, and mobile.
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@vwbusguy I think it depends on the use case.
For something like the Steam Deck, immutable distros make perfect sense. Heck, even for newer users to Linux, it can make sense with @UniversalBlue Bazzite, Bluefin, and Aurora. That's thanks to Flatpaks.
That being said, for advanced users like myself, I don't think image-based / immutable distros will take off that much because they're too restrictive.
They're really nice, but they're not a catch-all solution.
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@cameronbosch @UniversalBlue I would push back on immutable desktops not being suitable for advanced users. I gave a talk on this earlier this year at SCaLE. You're right that there are some different workflows for some things that may be more or less practical for some, but there are plenty of reasons for a developer, etc., to use an Atomic distro. For one, they're a lot harder to accidentally break.
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@vwbusguy That is true that "immutable" distros are harder to break. However, they aren't "immutable" in the sense of "not being able to be changed. Many of those DO have options to change the OS image underneath, such as rpm-ostree on Fedora Immutable based distros.
What also is true is that to get deeper into the system, it does take considerably more work. (1)
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@vwbusguy For example, I HAD to use rpm-ostree on Bazzite to install the Klassy window decorations (I prefer it to the stock KDE Breeze window decorations in several ways).
Also, I like to be on the almost bleeding edge of software so I can report bugs before more people encounter them and thus help FOSS be better. Unfortunately, afaik, image-based distros make it much less practical apart from using flathub-beta, and that won't work for system packages, like the DE, unless I was to compile it.
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@cameronbosch It's partially true. / is actually read-only, so it is immutable for that boot. You have to reboot for most rpm-ostree installs. There is an apply-live option for rpm-ostree but not very reliable.
If you want to customize this at the OS level, this is where leveraging @UniversalBlue is really exciting stuff.
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@vwbusguy @UniversalBlue You mean fork the OS image? That sounds cool! Where would I learn how to do this?
(I'd love to be able to make a reproducible image to install on multiple gaming handhelds, for example, if a Steam Deck 2 comes out.)
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@cameronbosch There's nothing wrong with using rpm-ostree to install things, especially if using repositories for updates. It is a supported install path in Fedora, as are flatpak and toolbox.
And yeah, usually when someone complains about Atomic workflows, it's because they have a highly customized/integrated IDE of some kind and are trying to make it all work with flatpak. Perfectly OK to use rpm-ostree for that. It's your box.
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@cameronbosch For me, the more "advanced" I got as a developer and engineer, the simpler my IDE needs got as I needed less hand holding. Now, I just use vim and occasionally geany and the geany flatpak works for me.
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@vwbusguy Okay, that's great to know. I don't think I'd be able to use Universal Blue without it!
As for Bluefin, the main issue I have with it is the lack of dual-boot support. My main laptop and tablet have only one SSD slot (my laptop technically has two, but the second cannot be used with dual-sided and/or 8 TB SSDs in the main slot), and that is a huge dealbreaker for my use cases. What is the ETA for a fix for dual-boot on a single SSD (with a different Linux distro, not Windows)?
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by [email protected]
@cameronbosch Ah, sorry, I misread DE as IDE.
Fun fact: This is exactly what ostree was invented for. It was a way for gnome devs to quickly test and revert things in active development.
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@cameronbosch @UniversalBlue That's exactly what I mean. With Universal Blue you can basically customize it with a Dockerfile.
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@vwbusguy @UniversalBlue Really!? I've got to try that out with a VM first, but I still have got to try it out!
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@cameronbosch That's a great question. Maybe @jorge might know? I don't have time in my life to live that multi-boot life any more .
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
GitHub - ublue-os/image-template: Build your own custom Universal Blue Image!
Build your own custom Universal Blue Image! Contribute to ublue-os/image-template development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
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Jorge Castroreplied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by
@cameronbosch @vwbusguy That's a limitation we inhering from upstream Fedora. Not sure on timeline or if anyone's working on it.
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Scott Williams 🐧replied to Jorge Castro last edited by
@jorge @cameronbosch Yeah, I knew there was a warning about it in the Silverblue docs, but didn't know what the current status of it is. I think the workaround was to keep distinct efi and use the boot menu in the bios to switch between them.
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cameronbosch :endeavourOS:replied to Scott Williams 🐧 last edited by
@vwbusguy Thanks for all of your help! Just a few more questions:
1. I should probably call my template something else (because of trademark issues) right?
2. Should this new repo be public?
3. Should I include all branches? -
Scott Williams 🐧replied to cameronbosch :endeavourOS: last edited by [email protected]
@cameronbosch You might pop on their discourse. Might be a better way to connect and find answers than over Mastodon.
Universal Blue
Planting the flag for the next generation Linux desktop
Universal Blue (universal-blue.discourse.group)