Article vs. Note vs. Page
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infinite love ⴳreplied to Matthias Pfefferle on last edited by
@pfefferle interesting. is there a concept of mixed-media formats, then? the reason I ask is because my first assumption would have been that Image maps to Image, in particular when it's a single Image. likewise, that Video maps to a single Video where possible. but i suppose that wouldn't completely work with multiple media files or mixed media, would it?
it may be worth thinking about alternative approaches like perhaps an "Album" extension type that is a Collection of Image/Video items?
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Evan Prodromoureplied to infinite love ⴳ on last edited by
@trwnh @pfefferle I mean, that's what a Collection *is*
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Matthias Pfefferlereplied to infinite love ⴳ on last edited by
@trwnh you can add as much media as you want with mixed media formats! So for normal notes and articles we take the media files in the order they are added to the text. For video, we search for videos first and fall back to others if there are no videos. Same for audio and image posts.
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Matthias Pfefferlereplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
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Matthias Pfefferlereplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan @trwnh see this gallery post for example https://notiz.blog/2019/10/16/10-hwc-karlsruhe/
Here is the JSON version https://notiz.blog/2019/10/16/10-hwc-karlsruhe/?activitypub
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infinite love ⴳreplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan @pfefferle well, not quite, a Collection is a generic presentation mechanism and can contain anything, like ldp containers or a filesystem directory/folder... whereas a MediaAlbum type would be specifically a Collection containing Image/Video, kind of like media albums on Facebook. i suppose it could also be done as a “range” property of type:vocab, but having a dedicated type allows some impls to treat it as a “post” if desired
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infinite love ⴳreplied to Matthias Pfefferle on last edited by
@pfefferle @evan the thing i’d be interested in thinking through is Create Collection (or a subtype) instead of Create Note, because the Collection itself may have relevant metadata. or more abstractly, defining what a wordpress Image or wordpress Video really means
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Evan Prodromoureplied to infinite love ⴳ on last edited by
@trwnh you don't need a separate type for that. Creating, and managing collections is an intrinsic part of ActivityPub.
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infinite love ⴳreplied to Evan Prodromou on last edited by
@evan the separate type would be specifically for signalling additional semantic meaning, namely "this is a media album", i.e. "this Collection contains only Image and Video items"
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@julian @Matthias Pfefferle @pfefferle @nutomic @silverpill @Renaud Chaput
Here's the reason Article became a second class citizen...
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/5022
In this issue I raised against Mastodon in 2017 (on a now defunct github account), Mastodon at the time treated Note and Article identically. In particular, it removed all the HTML except for 'a' tags - even from Article. This made federation with the elephant impossible for us. At this time the ActivityPub fediverse consisted of Hubzilla and Mastodon. Period. The specification wasn't even final yet. Hubzilla provides long-form multi-media content, just like a blog. This content was completely destroyed by Mastodon's HTML sanitizer, especially blockquotes, which displayed everything we quoted as original text and mis-attributed.
My proposal to the Mastodon team (which was basically Eugen) was to relax the input sanitisation on the Article type a bit , and Mastodon could have their plaintext Note and we could have our multi-media and the fediverse be one happy family. Regardless of the fact that HTML is specified as the default content-type for all content in ActivityPub.
The response from Eugen was to turn Article into a link, meaning our content wouldn't be shown inline at all - and closing the issue. I believe this is the last time I ever communicated with Eugen and I will never, ever file another issue against Mastodon.
We started using Note instead, so that our messages would federate at all and knowing that Article would have been the most sensible choice.
We also need to strip all the images out of our perfectly renderable content and add them back in as attachments - otherwise they won't be displayed on Mastodon. As it turns out, Mastodon only adds back 4 images and reverses the order. This is less than satisfactory because the source content lets us position text around each image, and it forces anybody with multi-media content to not only perform this unnecessary step, but also to check every attachment on import and see if it was already included in the HTML - or it will be displayed twice.
As far as I'm concerned, Mastodon should be taken to the mountain-top and cast into the volcano. But it appears we're stuck with the infernal thing. -
@mikedev @nutomic @pfefferle @renchap @julian @pfefferle @nutomic That was a different time. Since then WordPress has joined the Fediverse, and now Ghost is about to join as well. I think the ability to display rich content may soon become a serious competitive advantage.
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@julian
Not every software needs to handle Article/Note differently. From a forum perspective, or at least in NodeBB, Articles and Notes are both just added to topics and the posts that make up topics can be of any length.
Right. If your software has full support for long-form, formatted posts, especially if that includes creating them, and if your users are used to them, there's no need in handling them differently. See Friendica and its descendants. -
I Read part of this as "Is Matthias lying". And although we've never spoke directly, I thought "What an absurd proposition".
It likely makes sense for things to be Note when mastodon wants to read them. I Wonder if there is a possibility of content negotiation, so that when mastodon asks (presumably with mastodon user-agent) it gets a note, but future improved software could have a different type.
It's an interesting problem, as you can never truly own all clients
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@[email protected] said in Article vs. Note vs. Page:
Since then WordPress has joined the Fediverse, and now Ghost is about to join as well. I think the ability to display rich content may soon become a serious competitive advantage.
Completely agreed. The best time to consider a different approach is now, so I am hoping we can make some headway here at the WG meeting. Stay tuned...
