It's a big club, and YOU ain't in it.

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And I will vote for change. And I ask you to do the same.

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Yeah the whole AfD situation is extremely worrying to me.

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You don't have to pick a side. You could just say Brian Thompson deserved to die and that Luigi Mangione should see trial and possibly imprisonment.

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So they're in the room with us right now? Can you describe them to us?

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Ot only is it that murder is ok for everyone at a certain point but its that we are conditioned to praise retributive violence and killing so long as the ones being beaten maimed and or killed are marginalized people whom the ultra wealthy see as sub human and their casualty benefit their end goals. Like all the non violent labor and civil rights protestors who have ended up bludgeoned by batons and less than lethal munitions, or targeted by extra judicial unconstitutional surveillance and suppression tactics such as yale used against pro Palestinian demonstrators over the last year. There are too many examples of this double standard to go over without writing a book as thick as the king james Bible.

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I believe this is just not true. The US is one country. First-Past-The-Post system sucks but systematic change can happen. Its just... you guys elected Trump. I do not think the majority of Americans wants change bad enough. There is also no defeating the system through these actions. It would take a whole as insurrection, not one murder and I doubt anything good would come of it for the average American.

Im European so I really sympathize with the struggle for a decent healthcare system for you guys. I just don't think this is the right way.

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Rule utilitarianism states that “an action is right as it conforms to a rule that leads to the greatest good”. Murder as a general is right. The reason is that this murder is just a short-term thing that doesn’t undo all the deaths that have happened. The general abidance to rule of law without self-justice is worth way more than any single person dying in nearly all cases.

In the categorical imperativ Kant argues that you should “Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.” If it became a universal law that you could kill anyone you deemed evil this would end in a worse result for everybody. Thus it cannot be wanted.

The family and friends around him mourn and the new CEO seems like he is not about to roll over and accept every health insurance claim. The death is dividing citizens which believe he is a hero while others believe he is a murderer. The responsibility off of all those unneeded deaths are claimed by not only the CEO but also by legislators who didn’t account for universal healthcare. It is on the sitting government and parties for not supporting change. It is on the employer partly for not buying a higher premium package that includes more things or choosing a different company with a smaller denial rate. It is on the individual employee inside UH denying claims. It is on upper management like Brian Thompson and the people around him who are at fault for making this worse. And then there’s the stakeholders that don’t press on more ethical practices. Then its also on Americans voting against parties that wish to change the healthcare system in a beneficial way for everybody.

As the head of a company Brian Thompson also had the responsibility to steer it in an ethical way which it seems he did not do. His death has sparked public debate which is a good thing. This does not necessarily mean choosing a murder was the right way of doing things that optimizes utility for everybody.

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Seems like the comment writes itself

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You're just drawing lines between social murder and murder, but I disagree that they're meaningfully different except of course that one is legal and one isn't. I don't promote murder, but I do find that if you are consistent that all forms of murder are wrong then this is no different than a sniper on the roof of a stadium taking shots all day long with a pile of ammo behind him getting counter-sniped. Will another sniper take his place? Obviously. That's why systemic change is the real goal here, but let's not pretend the sniper going down is some great loss or that we should feel guilty for praising an effective counter-sniper who has offered no evidence that he'd ever aim lower.

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The man isn't the only one in the company and the system responsible. He steers the company at large, yes but every hand involved, be it the government, president, ceo to individual worker denying claims is technically at fault. I do not think we should celebrate murder. I do not celebrate Brian Thomson, neither do I celebrate Luigi Magione. I hope he gets his fair sentence.

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Then why murder than happened on same day had no manhunt?

𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚒𝚛𝚖𝚊𝚗 𝙼𝚎𝚘𝚠

First-Past-The-Post system sucks but systematic change can happen. Its just... you guys elected Trump.

Systemic change is being made next to impossible due to the rampant legalised bribery and corruption at all levels of the political offices.

How would you even go about going against the corporate oligarchy? Your candidates will get primaried and out-funded, your party colleagues will get bribed to vote against tackling these issues, and that's all assuming you could get close enough to having enough candidates for all races across the country, you get your messaging picked up by the media and you somehow poll so high that strategic voters won't split the vote, actively putting the worst party in charge instead.

You'd somehow have to get elected, get enough supreme court justices pushed through and have them repeal Citizens United to even get started. That's a tall order to ask from a political class that actively benefits from the current situation.

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If the universal law became such that those being systematically exploited and ultimately sickened and or killed by systemic injustice could target those benefiting from the injustice then those incentivizing and committing the act of social murder would be incentivized to rethink their approach to profiting off the death and suffering of poor and marginalized people.

We seem to overlook that FDR’s new deal and the Fair Labor Standards act of 1938 was enacted as a compromise to prevent more violent rioting by the frustrated and exploited laborers during the gilded age. It was either the robber barons acquiesced to what was good for those doing the work giving them a fairer deal or those they were exploiting ruthlessly would have dragged them out into the streets and beaten them senseless or worse in front of their wives and children.

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It should probably need to be a public grassroots movement. The public would need to be so outraged about the lack of change that democratically elected officials couldn't ignore the needs of the public if they want to be taken seriously. Public strikes and protests can work. The media and public need to keep speaking out about this issue. Citizens movements and effective messaging is possible, even if you don't have the corporate world to back you. And honestly most rich people that are not directly involved in healthcare shouldn't really care. Like whats the benefit for you as someone wealthy to stop public healthcare if you yourself are not invested? You will still be able to purchase additional insurance if public insurance would ever become reality. You would still be able to pay for special treatments. I don't see them fighting against this like slave-owners fighting against the abolishment of slavery.

What I didn't know... Is public healthcare actually made illegal by the supreme court? I'm not too deep into US law and such as I don't personally live there. What are your thoughts?

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Murder is an unjustified killing. Killing somebody who is socially murdering people is a form of self defence and is thus not murder. Don’t try and change my mind.

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The same people that will justify the murdering of a CEO are the same people that will lose their minds at the first sign of any justification of capital punishment. Apparently a prison can’t put a man to death for committing crimes, but a kid on the street with a gun can. Essentially: A murderer is only a criminal if their victim is someone they don’t like

There was someone in a comment I read yesterday that was talking about their unwritten instance rules stating that calling for the death of people they don’t like is okay, it calling for the death of leftists is against the rules.

This is how it is around here.

Even the concept of nuance is tempered with bias.

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My younger brother. He is entirely sold on billionaire philanthropy and believes Elon is a visionary genius that constantly finds ways to upturn the status quo.

He also thinks Jeff Bezos is a nice guy because he's so nice in interviews.

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Who is worse? Is a mass murderer deserving to have their life as they know it impacted negatively? Would you be satisfied by another case trying to hold a powerful person accountable so that they can be given a slap on the wrist? That's the alternative for Brian, except not even, because social murder is legal. You can't let a system deal with the outcomes if the system makes no fucking sense whatsoever. Change the system, but don't be surprised when people get creative about the ways to change it if they have no power to enact that change at all.

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And from you link I’ll share where this was debunked:

Was having ~30 salaried NYPD personnel to escort one dude really a good use of budget? - Lemmy.World

Lemmy

(lemmy.world)

We will see what we want to see. For people who want to see those that hurt people held accountable, you sure to like to share false narratives to elevate your point.

This only hurts it.