I like having Bluesky because it is a non-Twitter, non-Facebook space where I can hear from all my friends who are unable or unwilling to use Mastodon (a site with real barriers to entry).

mcc

I like having Bluesky because it is a non-Twitter, non-Facebook space where I can hear from all my friends who are unable or unwilling to use Mastodon (a site with real barriers to entry). I haven't talked to a lot of those folks much since 2022 and I missed them.

I have intricate arguments why Bluesky is the wrong technical model for a distributed social network. But if a person has already decided *for nontechnical reasons* that they aren't using Mastodon, those arguments mean nothing to them

mcc

There is a lot of Bluesky negativity on Mastodon and like, I am actually pretty negative on Bluesky?, but sometimes the negativity expands into attacking *Bluesky users* for making a Bad and Wrong decision, and not only is this mean¹, I feel like almost all of *those* critiques are deeply failing at empathetic imagination. You have to consider the Bluesky user's choice from *their perspective*.

¹ Sometimes being mean to a person is an ineffective way of convincing them to change their mind.

mcc

Note: I don't know if I specifically agree with this argument but I think it is very, very interesting

Dag Ågren ↙︎↙︎↙︎ (@[email protected])

@mcc Also, I think we all actually owe a huge debt to Bluesky for taking the brunt of the Twitter collapse. I don't think the Fediverse could have survived it. I've been low-key worrying about this for a while now.

Mastodon (mastodon.social)

Evan Prodromou

@mcc do you use the bridge?

mcc

@evan I do not think the bridge matches my model of how I use either website

Evan Prodromou

@mcc like, following people you know?

mcc

@evan Oh. No, I just installed both apps.

Evan Prodromou

@mcc OK. I don't think I understand what you mean by "model" then.

mcc

@evan The verbs are not the same and the communities are not the same. When I am publishing, I post subtly different streams based on the differing interests of my friends on the two sites, and I word things differently based on perceived attention spans and Mastodon's improved support for longform content (longer posts, bluesky UI fails on threads longer than 3 posts). On bluesky I post less stuff and the stuff I do post is simplified.

Evan Prodromou

@mcc ah, thanks!

josuetorres

@mcc what would you consider as a barrier for mastodon?

mcc

A number of people replied to my first post to say "but my objections to Bluesky are governance-related, not technical!". IE, the "what if Bluesky turns evil" argument.

But say someone doesn't like Mastodon. They don't like the UX. Or they don't like the ~vibe~. If you tell them, someday Bluesky will enshittify! Well. That will not be a convincing argument if, from their perspective, Mastodon is *already* shit. Those folks want a site they enjoy *now*. "Will I enjoy it later?" is secondary.

mcc

Getting various things out of the way to avoid tedious arguments: I am not describing my own opinion in the previous post, and so replying to me to argue against it will not be productive. I post more on Mastodon than on Bluesky. I *do* believe bluesky will turn evil and have made this point myself, on Bluesky. I didn't mention governance in post one because I think in this case governance is downstream from the technical (IE bluesky has baked their dodgy governance directly into the protocol).

Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈⧖

@mcc I agree with you—I have no interest in being a door-knocker Jehovah's Witness for Mastodon. If someone isn't interested, I don't want to harangue them. It behooves Mastodon to make itself more attractive to those people so if they look at it again in a few years they might try it.

The only thing I try convince Bluesky users of is to enable the Fediverse bridge by following @ap.brid.gy, so those here can interact with them. If they don't like it they can always unfollow to turn it back off.

mcc

@dgoldsmith I mean I think even evangelizing for mastodon might be a good thing, it's just that you won't be an effective evangelist unless you understand the viewpoint of the person you're trying to convince. Even the Jesuits understand that.

Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈⧖

@mcc Agreed. I think the Fediverse does need to get better at appealing to people who like the old Twitter/Bluesky vibe.

jbaggs

@dgoldsmith @mcc It's not solely about "vibes". I've literally seen people of color, advocating for why "quote toots" are important to them and the way they communicate, being told they just don't understand abuse potential or oppression.

Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈⧖

@jbaggs @mcc Yeah, that's another issue, unfortunately, which @mcc was alluding to above: the “you're holding it wrong" attitude of some vocal users here.

At least quote posts are finally on the way. The glacial development process due to lack of funds is another problem.

mcc

@dgoldsmith I don't want to use a site that has quote posts

Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈⧖

@mcc I believe one of the reasons it's taking so long is the user controls (e.g., who can quote your posts). Do you just not want your posts quoted, or do you not want to see quote posts at all?