I just finished a first read of @evan ‘s ActivityPub book from O’Reilly.

Sergio

I just finished a first read of @evan ‘s ActivityPub book from O’Reilly. The definitive guide for anyone who wants to write applications for the fediverse, imho. The detail level is spot on.

Evan Prodromou

@galactus Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it.

Mushi

@galactus @evan question: yesterday I was listening to the better offline interview with Mike Masnick where they touch on the AT protocolo I’m sure the comparative has been done before, but apart from the private vs open source nature of things, what are the main differences between the two

Evan Prodromou

@Mushi @galactus

For me, the fact that AT is a proprietary protocol controlled by a single VC-funded startup, while ActivityPub was created and is maintained as an open standard with patent protection by a recognized standards organization, is what’s important.

Evan Prodromou

@Mushi @galactus

I’d add that there are over 100 implementations of ActivityPub, dozens of clients, and tens of thousands of servers. The number of different organizations involved is surprising.

Protocols are a social phenomenon, not a technical one. And on the social front, ActivityPub is a clear choice.

Mushi

@galactus @evan I completely agree, for what it’s worth.

Evan Prodromou

@Mushi @galactus technically I don't know a lot about AT. I try not to use it or to read its docs since there's no patent protection.

That said, I'm pretty sure it uses DIDs for identifiers, and that all content is public.

Sergio

@evan @Mushi it seems to me ATProto’s descentralization is mostly theoretical (it is not realistic for a person or a small organization to run the main aggregator service and indeed no one but bluesky does) whereas for ActivityPub is not only possible but a reality.

If Bluesky were to dissapear today, all the self-hosted PDS instances would be rendered useless immediately. If Threads or the biggest mastodon instances closed today, the fediverse would still be alive and kicking.

ch0ccyra1n :she_her::neocat_floof_cute:

@evan @Mushi @galactus I do think that it's worth incorporating DIDs into ActivityPub implementations (as I understand it, the current webfinger-based usernames fall outside the spec, please correct me if I'm wrong). Otherwise I couldn't care less about AT Protocol. I just want to be able to talk to my friends regardless of where they are.

Evan Prodromou

@ch0ccyra1n @Mushi @galactus I'd definitely recommend using the Bridgy Fed bridge. It's really smooth.

https://bsky.brid.gy/

can

@galactus @evan @Mushi It’s very simple. Just look at the facts: there’s one Bluesky service with all their 13 million users on it, and there are thousands of Mastodon servers. No need for technical discussions and what-ifs. If quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and all that…

viq

@galactus @rysiek @evan @Mushi
IIRC @mcc tried to run PDS, and you have to have *exactly* same version as main bluesky. You try to add your own modifications, it won't work. You fail to update at the same time they do, it won't work.

Woozle Hypertwin

@galactus @evan @Mushi

I always figured there was no way they'd implement "federation" in a way that would relinquish any of that sweet centralized control.

BSky's "Federation" is just another "we use a word you like!" false-flag. National Socialism, German Democratic Republic, Freedom Caucus...

Mushi

@evan @galactus @woozle btw did threads ever federate? Which protocol did they use?

mcc

@viq @galactus @rysiek @evan @Mushi (Important nuance, possibly not super relevant to the conversation preceding: you can always *add* stuff. The version mismatch rules viq mentions only refer to *changing* stuff. So you could layer a second "application" with its own orthogonal data fields on top of AT, it's just if your implementation of the bluesky distributed application differs even a little from the Bluesky Social mothership you can get unpersoned. I am not impressed.)

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@mcc so, BlueSky is *still* cosplaying decentralization.

@viq @galactus @evan @Mushi

Evan Prodromou

@Mushi @galactus @woozle yes, ActivityPub. Currently one way; you can follow Threads accounts from Mastodon, and reply to them, but they can't follow you. Coming soon...?

Pierre

@evan @Mushi @galactus

Please share how atproto is a proprietary protocol

According to the license file atproto is Dual MIT/Apache-2.0 License which you can view here: https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/blob/main/LICENSE.txt

Also included a screenshot

Sergio

@okpierre @evan @Mushi but that's not how openness works for network protocols. Governance is critically important.

Pierre

@galactus @evan @Mushi

I'm trying to understand how atproto is proprietary. Are you saying the license is meaningless?