Should there be a single, secular, multi-ethnic state in Israel/Palestine, with equal rights for all?
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
This is sometimes called the "one state solution".
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Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:replied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan IMHO (I voted qualified no) that needs a few generations of a peaceful two state solution first.
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Douglas Patriarchereplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan I’m “qualified no”. Not because it isn’t desirable, but because very few of the people who live there seem to want this. Many people might wants parts, but not important bits like “secular” or “equal rights”.
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Jeff C. 🇺🇦replied to Douglas Patriarche last edited by
@dpatriarche @evan That tripped me up as well.
As an atheist, it’s damned tempting for me to say that the solution is for everybody to go full-on secular and embrace liberal ideals.
That ain’t happening.
I’m not so naive to think that I have an easy solution to this multi-generational conflict, but it seems obvious to me that — when and if it happens — it will be in the form of two sovereign political entities agreeing to significant concessions.
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"should" is a big word usually, but here it is a ginormous word.
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Christopher Neugebauerreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan
that depends on what you mean by "should" -
Evan Prodromoureplied to Christopher Neugebauer last edited by
@chrisjrn this seems to be a real sticking point for a lot of people. What do you think it means?
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@virtuous_sloth how so?
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@jeff @dpatriarche a secular, democratic unified state with equal rights for all was the stated objective of the PLO before the Oslo Accords.
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M. Grégoirereplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by [email protected]
@evan No. Most Israelis want to have a Jewish state, and that's fine so long as non-Jews are free and treated respectfully in Israel.
(I also have no objection to states that are officially Islamic, Christian or Buddhist, with a similar proviso for minorities.)
Of course this means that Palestinians ought not to be ruled by Israel. You can only have a liberal, democratic, religious state if there's a majority in favour of the official religion.
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@evan I doubt that Palestinians want a secular state either, though they're not really free to express their opinions.
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@mpjgregoire a democratic, secular, multi-ethnic state was the stated goal of the PLO before the Oslo Accords.
Not all Palestinians are Muslim; not all Muslims are Islamists.
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Jeremy Jupiter Jonesreplied to M. Grégoire last edited by
Palestine is a secular populace. Traditionally made up of Jews, Christians, Muslims and those who are secular. The land of Palestine is a holy land for Jews, Christians and Muslims. No single faith or people are superior to another. Neither the Christian or Muslim faiths existed 3,000 years ago.
Human rights are universal.
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M. Grégoirereplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by [email protected]
@evan What you write is true to be sure, but the PLO was the main Palestinian organisation 25 years ago. Hamas is explicitly Islamist; I think Fatah is officially secular. I don't know which better reflects the desires of the Palestinians. Indeed, maybe they're mostly opposed to both Hamas and Fatah.
For what it's worth, I've lived (briefly) in a Muslim majority society that's officially secular, and in one that's officially Islamic, though never in one using Sharia as the basis of its laws.
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M. Grégoirereplied to Jeremy Jupiter Jones last edited by
@jeremy_pm
Historically there were many Christian and some non-religous Palestinians, but that's less true today.According to Wikipedia, the percentage of the global Palestinian population that is Christian was 6.5% about 30 years ago. At present, of Palestinians living in the Holy Land, it's only 1 to 2% who are Christian.
There are other religious and ethnic groups with long-standing presence in the area of course. I once worked with a fellow who was Druze.
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@evan I’m very surprised by this result!
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@mattlehrer why so?
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
I am qualified no. If it were any other populations on the planet, I would probably be qualified yes. But the experience of Jewish people worldwide makes a Jewish state with defensible borders necessary.
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@evan And that overrides the rights of the indigenous people of Palestine?