I wish more people who are worried about FOSS supply side attacks would realize that universal basic income and free healthcare would result in an almost infinite stream of excellent software from people who care more about quality than profit.
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Mark Gardnerreplied to Trevor Flowers on last edited by
@trevorflowers @AFresh1 Who pays for that and what gives you the right to take it from them?
Mark Gardner (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] True. Sorry to mix metaphors, but when you dangle the notion of a “commons” in front of people, there are those who see the free lunch and others who see the first group as potential serfs.
SDF Social (social.sdf.org)
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The shitty jobs still exist and still need to get done, even when there's #UBI. The difference is, with UBI people can say "No" to shitty jobs with poor pay. So to get the shitty jobs done they have to pay enough so people want to do them. UBI makes shitty jobs a bit less shitty.
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@bobjonkman That's how you get the shitty jobs automated away first, not the ones that people actually want to do and enjooy doing.
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@csolisr Did you just make a "We have a shortage of money, so some people have to do work that is important to the society without getting paid for it" argument?
Because it sounds like you did.
(Fun fact: if people who are currently made to work without pay had an UBI, the money made for them would trickle all the way down to all sorts of rich people, a convenient place to get it back to the government via taxes, and get rid of it.)
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@mjgardner If you want to compare rights, what gives you the right to insist on enforcing the blatantly unfair status quo?
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RussianDeepStateSockreplied to Trevor Flowers last edited by
@trevorflowers UBI is a giant trap. No on UBI -- PAY US a fair wage, and then we can manage our own finances and security without state involvement and everything that goes with it. UBI = destruction of more of the public sector, welfare, SSI, etc etc, and it will, necessarily, increase prices unless you pair it with strong price control at the same time.
Pay. Us. Fair. Wages.
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Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to RussianDeepStateSock last edited by [email protected]
@milkman76 @trevorflowers Do you have any proof for these claims?
Especially the "destruction of public services" argument sounds like utter nonsense.Edit: The "higher prices" argument is the same that fastfood chains use against their US workers by the way. It's definitely nonsense, their prices in countries with better pay and better welfare / healthcare are even lower.
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RussianDeepStateSockreplied to Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@Natanox @trevorflowers do you have any proof the Yang Gang was ever going to bring in other economic controls? Would this plan do anything to stop the UBI dollar amount, per month, being recaptured by business, social services slashed, etc?? You don't think that the state and its oligarchy will just...provide 2k/month without stipulation or incentives for the corporations, right?
PAY US A FAIR WAGE. Single payer healthcare! Don't tie us to the state and Wall St?!?!?
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RussianDeepStateSockreplied to RussianDeepStateSock last edited by
@Natanox @trevorflowers what happens when a future UBI recipient is also an anti genocide protestor, and that protestor gets arrested at a protest and accused of "antisemitism" by a fascist state that has redefined any protests against Israel as antisemitic? I wonder if there is any issue for people being chained to the state that way, dependent on the state for critical income?
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Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to RussianDeepStateSock last edited by
@milkman76 @trevorflowers My brother in citizenship, you make the fundamental mistake of thinking that UBI is thought of as some kind of silver bullet. It is not, it's merely one stepping stone. It's literally *impossible* to propose *any* good thing in our current neoliberal latestage-capitalistic world, no matter if it's UBI or a fair minimum wage (wouldn't be fair rather quickly).
I could bring up even the best argument, anything is null and void in a system build upon exploitation.
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RussianDeepStateSockreplied to Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 last edited by
@Natanox @trevorflowers your brother in what? That comment... unless you meant something else, is *peak* late stage American culture, and it's kinda gross honestly.
Many do see UBI as a silver bullet, it's MARKETED by it's creators as a silver bullet, and "pay me" is one of the BEST WAYS to convince most Americans to vote against their interests. RAISING WAGES is a MUCH better demand than "put me into a means/criminal/credit/etc tested government program in this America." We must emancipate.
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Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸replied to RussianDeepStateSock last edited by
@milkman76 @trevorflowers Well, "brother in Christ" wasn't correct.
What the hell do you even mean, "peak late stage American culture"? I'm from Germany and I'm fucking sure right now the US, as every other country, is shifting dangerously to the far-right.
Anyway, since in my eyes you're merely repeating claims, demands and conflicting statements I see no point to proceed with this conversation. Have a nice evening!
