@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I wanted to run a couple of definitions by you and see what you think ...a fediverse (a portmanteau of "federation" and "universe") is a decentra...
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:compy: Lady, EVOLVED :awoo:replied to Jon last edited by
@jdp23 @rra @jonny @noracodes @rwg you’re welcome to
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@[email protected] Glad you like it and thanks for all the thoughts here! I'm primarily interested in shifting to people thinking of multiple fediverses, but feel like it's useful to capture the definitions both to convey how I (try to) use the words, and to give an overview of the broad range of usage others have.
My goal is one or more fediverses that are anti-fascist, anti-racist, anti-surveillance capitalist, I don't really care whether they're called fedi, "the Fediverse", the free fediverse, something else that doesn't have fediverse in its name, or whatever ... my intuition is that will be hard to define "the fediverse" or "the Fediverse" in those ways both because that's not how it's ever been and because most people (and the most powerful players) in today's Fediverse don't want that (at least in the short term). Since I don't want to privilege any definitions of "the" f/Fediverse that don't have the qualities I want; I'd rather focus on the "one of many fediverses".
In terms of whether Bluesky is a Fediverse instance, at some level it doesn't really matter, but the arguments people make for whether it is or isn't are revealing and a good way at looking at the power dynamics in today's Fediverse. Similarly, whether Nostr or Threads is a Fediverse instance is very similar to the question of whether Gab was a Fediverse instance in 2019. It's significant that the resounding answer to Gab was no, and that the answer to Threads is mixed in general but "yes" from the current power structure.
Agreed about the entangling of technology and culture. And, I'm also on fedi because of its possibilites as a transitional to define a new social networks that aren't grounded in oppression and surveillance capitalism. Of that's not why a lot of people are on fedi, and some people are on Bluesky/AT to create social networks that aren't grounded in oppression. Rudy's series of posts sketch a really powerful vision of what's possible, so while there's a lot to be skeptical about (as there is with fedi!) I also to see it as a transitional platform/protocol. Of course Bluesky PBLLC and the people running it probably don't share that vision, and even if they do they've got enough VC investment that it's extremely unlikely to be a vehicle for that ... then again a lot of people in the Fediverse's power structure don't share that vision either. The Fediverse's progress towards its possibilities over the last seven years has been minimal, so shaking things up is a good thing, and changing perceived boundaries and problematizing definitions are useful tactics. And in today's social network world there's clearly a desire for "big world" interactions, maybe that will prove transitional as well, but it's not unreasonable to have a tech stack that focuses on that to complement AP-fedi's focus on networked communities. I'm not concerned about "growing fedi", but as people who share our goals leave Twitter I'd rather find ways to align with them. -
@jdp23 i'm trying to log off of having words for the night but just want to say agreed and well said for the moment
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@[email protected] sounds good, have a wordless rest of the night!
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@rwg @jdp23 @Lady @jonny @noracodes
Hi Jon thanks for sharing the piece. I think it highlights the fact that the ongoing definition and redefinition of the space itself is a core feature of what the fediverse is (and as such will never be settled!).
In my opinion, there is benefit from zooming in to the specific ways federation is implemented and conceptualized, which is something I hope to contribute to such discussions with my phd work (soon). One of those distinctions you point out in your post: the desire to have a singular interconnected system (THE fediverse) and the insistence on a pluralist system, where multiple things run side by side and perhaps don´t interconnect even though they technically can.
As for multiprotocol applications: I saw it described as the "polyglot" approach (here https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3125433.3125455 ) which is an interesting way to think about it: is the fediverse a single protocol space or a polyglot space. In my phd work I only consider the Ostatus/AP lineage, even though that decision is also based on workable scope and what was historically there.
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Thanks for the polyglot terminology and link, Roel, I'll include that as well. And it totally makes sense to focus on just one particular lineage or subset of the overall space -- Erin and Darius' "Fediverse Microblogging Governance" focused even more narrowly on Mastodon and Hometown instances, and "Whiteness of Mastodon" talks about using "Mastodon as a metonym for the Fediverse".
And a separate conversation with @[email protected] and @[email protected] also highlighted to me that there are different definitions of 'federated', so I added this:I'm using "federated" in the general sense of "interconnected servers." Others use it to refer to specific kinds of interconnections. L. Rhodes in Federated and mediated networks and Robert W. Gehl in Decentralization or Noncentralization, Bluesky or the Fediverse both argue for more specific meanings of federation in this context.
And, based on other discussions in this thread, I also amended"fedi culture" is either the culture or community of the Fediverse; or, a set of cultural attributes that came to the Fediverse with the 2017 Mastodon/Glitch wave. Of course if you ask different people you'll get a different list of attributes of , but many long-timers include things like pro-LGBTQIA2S+, dislike for algorithmic feeds, defederation, and anti-Blackness in their list.
"fedi" is shorthand for "the fediverse" (whatever that means) or "fedi culture"
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] -
Jonreplied to :compy: Lady last edited by [email protected]
@[email protected] As always the question of how to attribute it.
Do you preferGlitchCat Administrator Lady, sometimes described as a "Fedi Cassandra,"
orGlitchCat Administrator and Fedi Cassandra Lady
or would you prefer I leave out the Fedi Cassandra? Or something else? -
:compy: Lady, EVOLVED :awoo:replied to Jon last edited by
@jdp23 typically these days i sign things as “Lady of ladys.computer” or something similar, but if you prefer to emphasize my link to the fediverse, i think “Lady, admin of glitch.cat.family” would be fine
(where ladys.computer and glitch.cat.family can be replaced with Ladys Computer and GlitchCat if you prefer prose names over domains)
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:compy: Lady, EVOLVED :awoo:replied to :compy: Lady last edited by
@jdp23 (you can call me fedi cassandra if you WANT but that’s a description, not a name)
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@[email protected] I saw satsuma's description of you as a Fedi Cassandra on your profile and liked it -- it's accurate! but yeah it wasn't clear how best to phrase it to make sure it's a description from others, not a name or an egotistical self-description. So, I'll just go with Lady of gltich.cat.family for now.