Relaxing treatment of non-notes by Mastodon

Laurens Hof

@erincandescent @darius @trwnh the fediverse in general could benefit from thinner servers and thicker clients, it would make all these interop discussions so much easier

Erin 💽✨

@laurenshof @darius @trwnh ... Things I have been shouting for literally a decade!

Laurens Hof

@erincandescent @darius @trwnh right, yeah, i meant this as a i'm-shouting-with-you-in-agreement-post

infinite love ⴳ

@jenniferplusplus @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap

We should go back to WebSub… and we should also go back to calling it PubSubHubbub

Erin 💽✨

@trwnh @darius I actually think this demonstrates a fundamental flaw in the email model

There are times you want to be able to do endpoint to endpoint but potentially automatic message exchanges, and email doesn't really have a mechanism for doing this

The straightforward example is my client noticing your S/MIME or GPG key is expiring and asking if there's a new one

Evan Prodromou

@trwnh @thisismissem @pfefferle @hongminhee @julian @renchap @mike @michael icon, image can help too.

infinite love ⴳ

@erincandescent @darius i think this could be solved by declaring specific endpoints for these things. no reason it should ever reach my inbox unless it's meant for my attention.

Erin 💽✨

@trwnh @darius I guess that's where I think your inbox is your actors inbox but not necessarily "your" inbox

Things like Update and Delete activities aren't really for your attention; they're just for endpoint synchronisation

Evan Prodromou

@erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @trwnh @michael @renchap In pump.io, we divided the inbox stream between "major" (new content, new shares) which is shown in a home timeline interface and "minor" (everything else) streams which are shown like notifications. Your scrobbles should be notifications and should be silenceable by the recipient.

infinite love ⴳ

@erincandescent @darius if the actor represents me, then it is "my" inbox.

the correct solution imo is to spin up more bespoke actors. i'd really like to build upon the concept of "programmable actors", i.e., actors that are automated to act a certain way with activities they receive in their inbox. for example, a Relay could be defined as a programmable actor that Announces the object of any Create it receives, or Announces any activity it receives, or whatever. and it should be a JSON-LD type

Erin 💽✨

@trwnh @darius you want more actors, I want less actors

This, obviously, means war

Evan Prodromou

@trwnh @erincandescent @darius neat! The https://github.com/evanp/bots-rodeo/ platform is supposed to do just that.

Erin 💽✨

@trwnh @darius more specifically if *I* have multiple actors I want to it be around multiple facets of myself, not dictated by technological constraints or similar

Erin 💽✨

@darius @trwnh I don't even like that I need to have an alt. We have Google+ esque circles in the protocol, I should be asleep to use them

(And don't get me started on the fact that replies to my followers only posts get addressed to the replying person's followers)

Matthias Pfefferle

@trwnh @jenniferplusplus @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @michael @renchap

ActivityPubSubHubbub!

infinite love ⴳ

@erincandescent @darius I think I'll win the war because I have more actors on my side

infinite love ⴳ

@erincandescent @darius I will not stop until ActivityPub is a turing-complete computing platform

Darius Kazemi

@trwnh @erincandescent turing completion considered harmful

infinite love ⴳ

@erincandescent @darius This! Let me create Collections that represent arbitrary subsets of my followers. Let me address them. Stupid sharedInbox makes this "inefficient", though.

infinite love ⴳ

@darius @erincandescent *me reading that activitypub uses actors and an actor model* ah so i can spin up an actor for every object in my object-oriented design program that runs on the ActivityPub Virtual Machine. i love being a computer scientist