@FediThing Federation is good! If and when data portaiblity exists it'll be even better! And it's imaginable that some of these other problems could be solved (more intentional federation, for example, and broad support for the ability to attach licensing information). But it doesn't help to overstate how well the current reality corresponds to artists' and photographers' needs. There *is* a great opportunity here, but evolution will be needed to make it real.
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I should be able to follow #Cara users from my Mastodon account. -
I should be able to follow #Cara users from my Mastodon account.@FediThing How does being able to keep your followers prevent your content from being used for AI training? The options are originally limiting its visibility, legal protections against using it for training data, or deleting it.
And being federated also doesn't prevent companies from buying instances -- in fact there are already examples of this. And when that happens, they get the content from everybody whose data has federated there (not just the people on the instance they've acquired).
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I should be able to follow #Cara users from my Mastodon account.@FediThing Scraping's not the only threat. Threads doesn't have to scrape to get content that federates there. Neither does any other instance that's run by, or working with, a company harvesting data for AI training.
And, even with scraping, there are legal defenses -- but they're not used by fediverse sites today. So I agree with @ben's conclusion: "there is no way an author can protect [content published to the fediverse] from being used in an AI training set."
Protecting artists on the fediverse
Some thoughts about AI scrapers and the fediverse
Werd I/O (werd.io)
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I should be able to follow #Cara users from my Mastodon account.In fact, federation *increases* the threats of content being used to train AI. Threads (where their policy makes it explicit) is only the most obvious exampe. Every single instance you're federating to (and don't forget relays) could share the data for training. How would you even know?
Don't get me wrong, I think federation's good, but it's not a magic bullet ... and it adds complexity, so I can see why people wouldn't start there.
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I should be able to follow #Cara users from my Mastodon account.I don't see how federation helps with any of the risks you describe. If whoever's running an instance sells out, the new owner gets all the content -- and there's no ability to move content. If whoever's running an instance shuts down, people are screwed with no ability to move content. I'm not sure what Cara's long-term business model is but it's not like federation or FOSS solves that either.
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I should be able to follow #Cara users from my Mastodon account.@FediThing True, and local-only posts are a great thing, but not implementing federation is a much easier way to ensure that all posts are local! So given the (very valid) concerns in the screenshots @wysteriary shared, and their limited resources, I can see why they'd make the tradeoff they did.
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I wrote up a bunch of the lessons I learned while trying to get the official mastodon image running in docker.@polotek thanks as always for shaving the yaks and then writing it up so clearly, really valuable!
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For the first time the #CoSocialCa Mastodon server has started to struggle just a little bit to keep up with the flow of the Fediverse.They mention in https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2024/05/trunk-tidbits-april-2024/ that they're trying to get OpenTelemetry into 4.3
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Practical solutions to the "don't share this on mastodon" problem:@jenniferplusplus thanks, very helpful! I had to make one minor change - my scripts were in /var/www/{{site_name}}/current/core/built/scripts
We'll see how much it helps next time my site gets slammed!
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Me, feeding 2 people and 2 cats on a 60k EUR salary without benefits (because technically self-employed), reading those comments that claim a 501(c)(3) is some kind of nefarious scheme to hide moneyI really meant them too! I'm about to respond to your useful clarifying post from my other account (which has a much higher character limit) with a few more thoughts.
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Me, feeding 2 people and 2 cats on a 60k EUR salary without benefits (because technically self-employed), reading those comments that claim a 501(c)(3) is some kind of nefarious scheme to hide moneyI certainly see the value of a US-based 501(c)(3) and was delighted to see
@alshafei on the board, I was at a session hosted by somebody from Numun at RightsCon a year or two ago and was very impressed. But I can also see why there's so much skepticism about the other board members. -
Me, feeding 2 people and 2 cats on a 60k EUR salary without benefits (because technically self-employed), reading those comments that claim a 501(c)(3) is some kind of nefarious scheme to hide moneyAgreed. Biz' Future Positive "multi-stage investment firm" raised $250 million, so it doesn't fit neatly into the traditional angel / VC dichotomy. Also, Biz is on the board of the AI Foundation, ia "dual commercial and non-profit organization"; and Amir is defending AI companies like Stable Diffusion against copyright lawsuits. A candid FAQ could explain all this and how it aligns with Mastodon's values.
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Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ...Thanks for the link, useful info. Agreed that it's a work in progress so wait-and-see mode makes sense. @tchambers @kissane @jonny
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Draft of my (to-be) FEP for audience targeting and filtering is up at https://github.com/larpconnect/featherpub/blob/main/feps/8f9c/index.md for those that are interested.I haven't submitted as a FEP yet (and won't for a while), but that's the ultimate...@hrefna cool, glad you're doing this, from a first read it makes a lot of sense. Totally agreed o the distinction between scoping and an access control mechanism! One minor potential correction: the Design segment says "MUST NOT contain any fragment other than #Limited or #Public", presumably it should also allow #Local ?
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Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ... -
Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ...And @kissane it also seems to me it would be a good issue to file. I tagged a couple of their devs at https://bsky.app/profile/jdp23.bsky.social/post/3knugvlg37k2r so it'll be interesting to see if they agree.
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Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ...The user experience is to submit directly to the labelers, not sure how it works behind the scenes. Therre's some discussion from a Bluesky dev at https://bsky.app/profile/jacob.gold/post/3knqwjlvhu22q But blocks are public on bluesky so no matter what they layering is they *could* be checked.
And yeah, getting a new DID is also an attack. If they threat modeled this, they either missed some very obvious stuff or skipped the all-important "implement mitigations" step
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Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ...Hmm, here's an example that their red-teaming doesn't appear to have considered. There doesn't seem to be any way to prevent an account from following a labeler and reporting posts -- I just tested and even if the labeler's blocked the account it can still subscribe and report. So what's to prevent bad actors from bombarding a labloer with (valid) reports of traumatizing images that Bluesky has hidden by default?
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Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ...@kissane They've certainly thought it through a lot more than ActivityPub and Mastodon did at the equivalent stage! Bryan said they've done red-teaming, perhaps that included threat modeling as well. If so it'd be a first, no social network that I know of has ever done this early in their lifecycle (or for that matter later). Time will tell.
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Ozone, Bluesky's stackable moderation system is up and open-sourced. https://bsky.social/about/blog/03-12-2024-stackable-moderationI think it's interesting in obvious ways and risky in some less obvious ones (that have less to do with "O NO BILLIONAIRES" ...Right. I don't think they've fully thought through the implications of the underlying design. I asked @bnewbold over there if they had done threat modeling but didn't get a response, oh well.
@tchambers @kissane that's also how I see it with Bluesky-run relays and PDS's, but they've also said that it's only illegal content and spam. Masnick's paper talked about *not* removing Alex Jones at this level. So it's not clear that Gab would have to have their own PDSs or relay. (1/N)