@benroyce @Raccoon @fiberologist @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
Harris says she wants a cease fire *now*, right before election day, but without needing to prove she intends to follow through.
And if you're going to continue with the "I stopped reading here", we're done.
I never said "not voting". I agree that "not voting" is pointless. I said voting third party. Or writing in candidates. That's what sends the message that voters are engaged but unsatisfied by the DNC's march to the right.
(Again, for anyone jumping into the thread late - I voted by mail for Harris. I'm talking about the future.)
@Raccoon @fiberologist @gwm @benroyce @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
Again, I voted for Harris (by mail), and Biden, and Clinton, and Obama, and Kerry, and Gore.
But I absolutely do not trust any claims that Harris will do better with respect to the Palestinian people. The timing is suspect - the Biden Administration has been sending weapons as recently as September. Now that the Palestinian genocide issue might affect the election, suddenly the people defending Israel against UN Security Council resolutions, pushing for censorship of anti-IDF media, and sending 17.9 billion in military aid for the purpose of slaughtering Palestinians suddenly grew a conscience? Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
I would absolutely love to be wrong. It would be the best thing that happened in the world in the past decade if Biden or Harris follow through and pressure Israel to stop. If it happens, I will be celebrating from the rooftops - and voting for Harris again next time. You have my word (for what that's worth).
But I'm 90% sure Biden and Harris will give speeches about humanitarian concerns and then send Israel more weapons.
"it is about moving in a direction"
"a" direction, not "an acceptable" direction. I'm not talking about heading towards perfect, I'm talking about heading any way other than exactly where the people running the DNC want to go.
"You'll do exactly what we want, the way we want it, or leave."
That's impotence. 24 years of the party walking rightwards while my primary votes go to people that get crushed and my general election votes get good judges (yay!) and 800 billion dollar military budgets, drone strikes, and genocides. Year, after year, after year, after year.
Keep telling me to stay the course, it will magically fix things. The same thing I heard in 2012. 2016. 2020.
Maybe you're the DNC bot.
I have been voting in the primaries, and I'll continue to. But in the general? No. Not if the person in the general election is all in on war, oil, and oligarchy.
blaming the Democrats for GOP obstruction?
Obama controlled the Department of Justice for 8 years and filed 0 anti-trust suits for "too big to fail" and prosecuted 1 small fry industry middle manager for "we're going to go after the people who caused the financial crisis". The big banks are still there, and Biden hasn't gone after them either.
Obama campaigned on protecting whistleblowers and then treated Snowden like a traitor.
Biden was the biggest Democrat cheerleader for the unjustified invasion of Iraq.
The GOP didn't make Obama order 563 drone strikes during his Presidency.
The GOP didn't make Hillary Clinton orchestrate the coup in Libya.
The Democrats overwhelmingly support our military budget every year.
Biden and the Democrats could have stopped the military aid to Israel at any time.
I am *profoundly* grateful for the Affordable Care Act, and the anti-trust lawsuits filed under Biden, and the appointment of judges that respect the humanity of people that aren't white cis heterosexual Christian men, and the legalization of marijuana.
But the big picture is that the Democrats are still in Wall Street's pocket, still bloodthirsty warmongers.
(I don't know if anyone else still cares about the discussion.)
Impotence is spending twenty years voting for a party that has no interest in implementing anything they campaigned on.
@benroyce @gwm @barney @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36
The Democrats are never going to move left, as long as their current policy of "Fuck you all, the Republicans are worse" and promising all kinds of progressive policies they never intend to deliver wins elections.
I live in Pennsylvania. Voters in PA can't even make ballot initiatives to change state laws or the state constitution. All ballot initiatives have to come from the state legislature, which will never voluntarily give the citizens the power to break the two party duopoly.
When enough people vote third party, the Democrats might decide they need to deliver on their campaign promises. Until then, they'll keep marching us to hell by using Republicans as extortion.
(Edit: for anyone that stumbles across this post without seeing the rest of the thread: I voted for Harris, I voted for Biden, I voted for Hillary Clinton. I consider Trump a unique threat. But going forward, I'm done.)
@benroyce @gwm @barney @GreenFire @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36
For the 3rd time on this thread, if not the 25th:
1. I *did* decide that Trump is so much of a threat, that I voted for Harris. My refusal to vote Democrat again until they stop the genocide starts next year, assuming Trump is defeated.
2. The people de facto supporting the party furthest from me are the people that actually vote for the party furthest from me. Again, you're making a fascist, false dichotomy "If you're not with us, you're against us" argument.
If "harm reduction" is the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of civilians, maybe we're not worth saving.
@gwm @barney @GreenFire @benroyce @fiberologist @WAHa_06x36
"It also highlights how she is the reason that we even had to have a first Trump administration too."
That's funny, I could have sworn the reason we had a first Trump administration was Republican voters.
How silly of me.
@fiberologist @gwm @benroyce @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut
Before I continue, I voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016, Biden in 2020, and Harris by mail this year. I haven't been ignorant enough to vote Republican since the 1990s, and I'll never make that mistake again.
The centrist rage against third parties is unfair. Our enemies are the people supporting Trump, not the people voting third party. "You're either with us, or you're against us!" is exactly the kind of false dichotomy fascists use.
If Harris loses, it will be because the Biden Administration would literally - literally - rather support the Palestinian genocide than improve their odds of beating Trump. (And before anyone else says "Trump would make the genocide worse!" - "The other guy would commit genocide too!" is not a valid argument.)
