@trwnh @thisismissem @pfefferle @hongminhee @julian @renchap @mike @michael but one thing I'd note: I think objects should always degrade gracefully into something note like, but that's not the case for activities

Imagine I used a federated last.fm like application. If Mastodon converted as:Listen to a note, my followers would probably get pissed off about the "Now listening to: X" statuses every 2 minutes

@trwnh @hongminhee @julian @michael @mike @pfefferle @renchap @thisismissem back in pump.io these things were relegated to your "minor feed". Absent an equivalent, I think implementations *should* suppress them. If your use case isn't amenable to this behaviour, you should probably consider if an activity is appropriate for it

@irenes @skye I come bearing knowledge of https://webwormhole.io/

@julian @hrefna I think the difficulty with fixing this in a standard is that people will want to experiment and extend and you’re inhibiting that

But defining the minimums would be great

@trwnh @darius you want more actors, I want less actors

This, obviously, means war

@Seirdy yeah...

Given I run a single user instance I don't bother with a media proxy because the anonymity set is me and the bandwidth reduction would be minuscule

@trwnh @julian @silverpill I think the question here is "does a thread actually have any distinct properties of its own?"

Maybe a title, but that can also be inherited from either the first or most recent post. Many threaded discussion systems don't have thread objects at all, of course (email is perhaps the canonical example)

So I lean towards the idea that you should just redirect to the first thread in the post, and place the context (which when becomes just a collection of in-thread posts; an implementation detail) at another URL where it mostly becomes invisible to users.

And I think that's better, especially because having significant semantics on collections starts getting confusing when e.g. you have collection pages flying around

Really I think most types which can be represented directly as a collection (e.g. image galleries) are best represented as an object that possess a collection, though not everyone might agree

@trwnh @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap I think publishing every scrobble to my followers is how I expect federated last.fm to work. It's on recipients to hide these things

@thisismissem @julian @silverpill @trwnh I believe that Mastodon implemented this for privacy reasons, but I honestly think using the users actual actor here would be preferable. How else do you establish visibility?

@trwnh @evan @julian @silverpill bear in mind though that my thinking here is very heavily influenced by working with ActivityStreams 1, where Collections were not Objects. I still think that distinction was correct; but there's a lot of stuff that was changed in AS2 unnecessarily that I resent and perhaps I'm still grumpy about it

@darius @trwnh I don't even like that I need to have an alt. We have Google+ esque circles in the protocol, I should be asleep to use them

(And don't get me started on the fact that replies to my followers only posts get addressed to the replying person's followers)

@trwnh @julian @thisismissem @silverpill In any case I don’t think “origin based authentication” for fetches is a good idea for the simple reason that its not, to my knowledge, what implementations do today and it strongly risks leaking private posts. Certainly what the ActivityPub spec heavily implies if not outright says is that anything fetchable via a given identity should be visible to that identity, and I’m generally iffy on the idea of trying to make implementations execute potentially complicated ACLs on behalf of each other; that way is certainly a security disaster.

So that then leaves us with the question: is leaking the identity of the actor who has pasted a post’s URL into their instance’s search bar a real issue?

@darius @trwnh and I believe Lemmy & co do? But I honestly haven’t followed them

@julian @silverpill @thisismissem @trwnh this is the part of the conversation where if she were still involved in things Christine would bust in and start shouting “OCapPub!!!!” at us all

@julian @trwnh When Akkoma originates a thread the context it populates it with doesn’t resolve.

However, fixing that is on my plate.

@feld @thisismissem @mttaggart @mwl because it's in ISO 3166 (where it's considered a provience of China)

@julian @trwnh @darius yeah I don’t really object to their use of audience to refer to a community here, its basically the same as to: the community or similar

Their non-use of context is… disappointing, but then much of how Lemmy uses AP is disappointing and Weird.

@muvlon @thisismissem @mttaggart @mwl ISO has exceptionally reserved SU. I imagine it will be decommissioned if they ever withdraw that

@evan @julian @darius Would the same line of argumentation not apply for “Why is this a new FEP and not an issue raised against FEP-7888?”

@raucao @thisismissem @mttaggart @mwl All 2-letter TLDs are to be allocated per the ISO 3166 list of country codes.

If IANA were to diverge from this, it would risk a collision in the future should IO be assigned to a country. It would generally also be bad form for a member of the ISO 3166 Maintainance Agency to diverge from the standard they maintain.