Threadiverse Working Group

@silverpill @julian

Silverpill wrote:
> Could you provide an example of such post?

Here you go bro: Socialhome post w/inline images.

I'll try to give it a boost from my #Mitra, #Hubzilla, and #Friendica accounts too (if I haven't already) so you can study/compare the various treatment cases 🙂

Sadly, I have not yet launched streams yet for study. I know, I'm a lame-O. I'll get to it shortly, prolly just spin up a local VM on Proxmox for that here, I really am anxious to give it a go 🙂

#tallship #inline_media

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@Julian yeah that's a good point - I think tag would work but I always got the impression that they were more of a micro-level part of a specific piece of content vs. macro-level (being the place they're being discussed in). context would be set at the forum level (whatever the forum's owner specified) whereas tags might be decided by the user. So in that sense, context would more about origination of a post.

Example might be something like this -

{ id: "https://yuforium.com/forums/cars", type: "Service", name: "Example Forum About Cars", context: "https://another-instance.org/topic/cars" }

Where a POST to that forum's outbox with a Note would result in that note's context defaulting to the one set to the forum. Posting with another context would result in an error. This makes things a little different than a tag which is what would be user specified. In that sense, context is more about where the post was created, vs. what it was created about. In a federated system, where could be an authoritative entity that encompasses multiple instances and is dereferenceable, or where could be defined as a UUID and be completely unauthoritative and ephemeral.

Given that it's more about the origination of the post, I would agree that the term "Community" is better in this case to define what context relates (instead of "Topic") so in the example, context could be switched to https://another-instance.org/community/cars.

It's been a while since I wrote that up, and at the time I was considering using "Community" as the terminology for a context so I might update that soon (especially with "Topic" being a frequently used convention in forums meaning something totally different).

In the Activity Streams docs, the one part about context that got my attention was this - "An example could be all activities relating to a common project or event", meaning that context exists outside of the scope of what a thread would be, and is more indicative of a forum level or federation setting vs. the contents (objects, activities, etc.) of a single thread.

trwnh: Topics can be split In addition to splitting topics, topics or their posts can also be merged into another topic. The UX for this is quite variable; sometimes entire topics can be merged into another, sometimes a certain range of posts within a topic (post 5 .. 10 from 15 posts), and sometimes a selection (post 5 and 10 from 15 posts or just a singular item post 5 from 15 posts). trwnh: Topics exist in a category For #Flarum topics can also not exist in a Category (we call them tags and that extension is optional, like all of our extensions). Even when using a Category, once the Category is deleted, we do not hard delete any topics contained within but unlink them, making them less visible but still existing within the Forum. Regardless, to us, Topics CAN exist in a category, it's not required. trwnh: Users can be followed for posts and topics Users can be messaged directly This sounds as if this is a given, I don't think it's guaranteed in every Forum software. But if can implies optional, then

@julian @thisismissem It genuinely never occurs to me to use tags as a means of controlling notifications. In fact, the very idea that the sender has more control over notifications than the recipient is mind boggling.

@[email protected] said in Traversing the reply chain when working with topics:

infinite inReplyTo chain.

I think this could be solved in part by the chain traversal sanity checking to ensure that the id is not already retrieved, but I'm not naive enough to assuming that that can't be circumvented.

... so yes, in that sense a limit makes sense from a security standpoint.

Thats how FEP-1b12 works, its necessary if you want to federate activities such as voting, deletions or mod actions and not only post creations. But Lemmy doesnt support arbitrarily wrapped activities, only specific hardcoded ones like Announce/Create/Note, Announce/Like or Announce/Delete.

Cheers @[email protected] thanks for making it official.

@[email protected] hopefully you can subscribe to the recurring event now 🙂

Hey @[email protected], how can I add events to the SWICG calendar? I notice there's a little button to include "Task Forces" in the listing, so I think listing our meetings would be helpful, now that we've settled on a more consistent time/day-of-week.

cc @[email protected] (unrelatedly, do you get notified if I mention your SocialHub handle?)

@[email protected] said in Article vs. Note vs. Page:

Since then WordPress has joined the Fediverse, and now Ghost is about to join as well. I think the ability to display rich content may soon become a serious competitive advantage.

Completely agreed. The best time to consider a different approach is now, so I am hoping we can make some headway here at the WG meeting. Stay tuned...

cc @[email protected] @[email protected]

@julian @rimu i think that was rimu actually, although i can probably give a summary

@devnull

infinite love ⴳ (@[email protected])

@[email protected] brevity

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Mastodon (mastodon.social)

infinite love ⴳ (@[email protected])

@[email protected] more specifically, the examples use `audience` instead of to/cc, but you can use any of the three (to/cc/audience)

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Mastodon (mastodon.social)

Thanks @[email protected] — I think this is (one of) the last piece before two-way federation will start working. Hopefully it will be merged and updated soon 😄

Yeah, pretty much. angus: I think it would be helpful to work through an example of where this particular point of intersection may become an issue. Say you encounter an actor of type Group. You Follow the actor. You can't expect it to behave in any one particular way, but it will generally behave in one of these ways: It is a "normal" publishing actor. You will receive Create Object, Announce Object, Like Object, and so on. It is a boost bot. You will receive Announce Object for any object sent to it, mentioning it, etc. It is a 1b12 actor. You will receive Announce Activity, and other activities described in 1b12. It is a Smithereen-style actor. There will be a wall property, and it will send out Add activities where the target is that wall. The Add.object will also have a target, and this will match the Add.target as per 400e. Bonus: It is a context moderator. You will receive Add activities where the target is the object.context. It may also additionally be a "normal" publishing actor. So for any given "post", it might be a Create/Add/Announce/Announce-Create. This isn't limited to Group actors, but it is most prevalent in Group actors because of the popular (erroneous) interpretation of Group as equivalent to Facebook Groups. One final thing to note is that "normal" publishing actors and context moderators may be any type, not just Group -- there is no specific type dependency for these mechanisms, as they are the intended mechanisms. angus: So, this would result in something like: You receive Note 2 (with context A, a collection) which is inReplyTo Note 1 (with context A) You receive an Update to Note 2 and it now has context B (a collection)? OR perhaps you receive an Add of Note 2 to context B? In both 2 and 3, the inReplyTo would still be to Note 1, which would still have context A. @trwnh something like that? Yup. id: type: Note attributedTo: context: content: "I'm posting in a thread" --- id: type: Note attributedTo: inReplyTo: context: content: "This post is in a different thread but still replying to the first" --- id: type: Article attributedTo: inReplyTo: name: "Some Article" summary: "In which I reply to a forum post with an entire blog post. This is not part of any context." content: "

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...

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@julian @[email protected]
Peeps, if we could further fill in the terminology spreadsheet and maybe use this as a start to deeper map between the platforms/protocols :- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tPZXywqFZe3xXx_fV9icNHLOkSrXx3_rHhPeRmMBZR4/edit#gid=0

If I did things correctly, I should have a rudimentary two-way synchronization working now… I'm not sure if there's still a 5 minute delay between posting and federating... let's see.

@julian I am once again reminded of why Roberts Rules are written the way that they are and why the "Roberts Rules for small groups" caps at 12 people.

@[email protected] not a problem, I'll post up the minutes soon for open discussion!

We didn't get into any technical details re: ordered collections, etc., so there's still time to discuss the intricacies of 9988.