I just realized that I don't need to argue with y'all about:

mekka okereke :verified:

To be clear, the goal is not for Nivenly to become a perpetual philanthropic organization.

The goal is to bootstrap a self-sustaining, financially viable ecosystem for trust and safety and Fediverse software development. So some projects are incubated and then graduate.

For $7 a month, you can be a Nivenly co-op general member, and get to vote on stuff too!

https://nivenly.org/governance/

Our money goes into the pot. The Co-op decides what projects to help to advance the Fediverse.

Luca Sironi

@polotek @mekkaokereke

Marco, good UX and accessibility is mandatory to have.

The good news is that we can have that first point way before 2025.

If we have valuable people to put into those lists.

Oliver Jensen

@mekkaokereke ok. I will bet against you, for the simple fact that if I lose, I win.

I bet $150 that mastodon will not have both quote tweets and composable moderation by January 1 2026.

If I lose, I'll pony up the cash to the destination of your choice (a charity, a mastodon server, someone asking for MutualAid, your own Venmo, whatever). If I win, I've gotten way more than $150 value from your posts so we'll call it good.

Marco Rogers

@underscorner @mekkaokereke who is we? Cause it's not me and it's not you. And it's not happening today. So I would say there's a piece missing.

mekka okereke :verified:

@ojensen

Deal!

Fair warning, I'm cheating! Because I know that the Mastodon team and other volunteers are already working on these things.

They don't get fragile when I criticize Mastodon. They just... work on fixing stuff.

Andrew

@mekkaokereke @ojensen have things gotten better with mastodon development and less BDFL-y?

mekka okereke :verified:

@cinebox @ojensen

Yes.

I never saw the "I refuse to talk about QTs!" version. I've only ever known the more mature "How do we do QTs safely? And where would you stack rank the QTs feature in importance relative to say, providing more actionable information for moderators, or helping users choose a safe first server?" version.

Robert Burgholzer

@thisismissem @chirpbirb @mekkaokereke @esk
How does one contribute to the hachyderm/nivenly bounty program?

Esk 🐌⚡💜

@rburghol @thisismissem @chirpbirb @mekkaokereke we did a soft launch test to try out the process - we're planning on formally launching in December!

the fund will be modest to start during the pilot, but if we get good signal/participation, we'll look to expand it further.

Emelia 👸🏻

@esk @rburghol @chirpbirb @mekkaokereke oh, awesome! I wasn't sure if it'd gotten canned or not. Glad to hear it's continuing though!

Esk 🐌⚡💜

@thisismissem "canned" temporarily bc i got busy

but we (nivenly board) agreed to set a budget for the pilot just the other day. i'll dust off the docs & do a blog post after the US thanksgiving holiday.

Emelia 👸🏻

@esk nice!

:PUA: Shlee fucked around and

@mekkaokereke Mastodev sure do seem to be allergic to fundraising in bulk and I've been begging them for years....

Mark Kraft

@mekkaokereke I'm all for something like starter packs, but the devil is in the details. There appears to be serious server issues that starter packs could potentially exacerbate, if not addressed first.

Elk

A nimble Mastodon web client

Elk (elk.zone)

mekka okereke :verified:

@KraftTea

Yes, that's a real issue, but has nothing to do with starter packs.

mekka okereke :verified: (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Yeah, no doubt. I'm less concerned about the server software itself scaling, and more concerned about some of the protocol and implementation decisions. I.e., the "They call it Mastodon, because when a big account posts a link hosted on your server, it generates a preview by sending a thundering herd to come and trample your server!" The server software is too interesting a project for the Rust / Elixir / Go and EngProd / SRE crowd to not obsess about performance.

Hachyderm.io (hachyderm.io)

If we picture a world with 500M people on Mastodon, the infra design breaks a lot of smaller sites. Conversely, BlueSky's infra choices don't break smaller sites. I do love your focus on what it means for Fediverse to be a better Internet citizen.

"Mastodon only works because it's not popular! Stop making it popular!" is probably not the message we should lead with.

Mastodon Migration

@mekkaokereke @KraftTea

From the admittedly small experience so far with Follow Packs feel like the issues we need to address to make packs work and be safe is both consent and size.

People need a way to remove themselves if they don't want to be listed.

Packs need to be manageable in size. It they are too big the originator can't possibly do a good job when issues arise.

Too big also makes them potentially more problematic both technically and socially.

1/n

Mastodon Migration

@mekkaokereke @KraftTea

Be very curious your thoughts on groupings and the potential for targeted abuse. So far the follow packs are things like astronomy. No one goes after astronomers. But when packs start grouping accounts by race and gender there may be targeting issues. Should this be a particular concern, or is it just a part of the overall moderation and abuse issue?

Mark Kraft

@mastodonmigration @mekkaokereke It seems to me that people need to not just be recommended to, say, an author they like, but also to people they can legitimately befriend and interact with, who are followers / active commenters.

New users can't expect to generate a lot of friends, comments, etc. from professional content creators.

Generating a limited deck of varying but relevant people might be more useful for all concerned than a pure top-40 list.

mekka okereke :verified:

@KraftTea @mastodonmigration

I'll be honest... Guys on Mastodon that don't even know what starter packs are, but spout off about them based on half knowledge of what they think they are, are really annoying. Like, super annoying.

Starter packs are created by users and contain micro-communities. They're not just giant influencer follow lists. Which is part of why there are *more* person to person conversations on BlueSky than Mastodon. Much more. It's not close.

mekka okereke :verified:

@mastodonmigration @KraftTea

It's part of the overall moderation and abuse issues.

It's not that hard to figure out how to give users control over if they are included in starter packs or not. BlueSky hasn't done this yet, but should.

It's not that hard to moderate accounts that make starter packs for the purpose of abusing other users.

But even still, there are like 15 more important abuse vectors that need to be closed down before I worry about starter packs.