CEO of Meta, which recently joined the newly founded #SocialWebFoundation, suggests that there is "no causal connection" between social media and teen mental health.
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
"disagree that Meta can be a part of this network without influencing it"
Right, to a certain degree, sure.
But, at least from my perspective, I can't help but wonder, how are the other companies and organizations comfortable with their logos and names appearing right next to Meta's, given their history.
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@evan @wendinoakland But that's all I have to say on this topic. I've said on a few occasions that my single-user server is the last social media website I'll sign up for, and I'll stand by that.
Meta trying to co-opt it and subvert it was to be expected. I still believe we as a community can resist that. It's just disappointing to see so many not willing to even try.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@stefan @wendinoakland Stefan, I wonder for you what signals you might see a year from now, in terms of processes and programs, that would make you feel more or less concerned about the SWF?
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan @wendinoakland SWF has its problems covered in other threads discussing it, and to be honest, I'm less concerned about those.
My problem is specifically with Meta being welcome to directly influence the fediverse.
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by [email protected]
@evan @wendinoakland I fully expect to see ad support on a protocol level, at some point, and perhaps that's even fine, depending on the implementation. If done right, this can help some servers keep up with the costs.
My concern is that that will not be where Meta's influence will end, and that's something that will take more than a year to fully reveal itself.
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@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I'm more concerned about the triplet Meta, Automattic and Medium.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@stefan @wendinoakland you and I agree, mostly. I'm part of a cooperative instance, and I want our collective to thrive.
I also think it's great that companies have to engage with the Fediverse now. We have a powerful model and a powerful movement and they can't ignore us any more.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@stefan @wendinoakland also, I really hope this is *not* your last word on the topic. You have a valuable perspective that I really appreciate, and skill with communicating it. In particular, I think your writings on how new implementers should engage with the Fediverse are important.
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@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Meta by itself is not a significant enough threat, but the fact is that Mastodon is also in this foundation. These are some pretty big names with a large amount of funding and influence on the web. I am fearful that their influence will sway the conversations on what fedi needs overall. If we go to one of their missions https://socialwebfoundation.org/long-form-text-on-the-fediverse/ this is a pretty low priority in my opinion.
for this project, the Social Web Foundation will convene implementers and other stakeholders for a long-form text workshop to discuss data structures, interactions, and page formats.
What does that mean? Are they going to go around asking instance software developers about this? Are they going to ask themselves about this? Why are we focusing on this when we have other issues to worry about. I am worried about the implication that these underlying issues will be drowned out with features that are niceties at best, and unwanted at worst. I've seen how tumblr was so successful at building a facade over their decaying infrastructure. How https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/meta-fined-102-million-for-storing-passwords-in-plain-text-110049679.html meta was storing things in plaintext pretending everything was okay. I don't want issues like forwarded reports to be swept under the rug and not given proper attention because the people up top are more focused on making it a content distribution platform for stakeholders.
RE: https://transfem.social/notes/9yq1pladclg00029 -
Evan Prodromoureplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@stefan @wendinoakland this is such a good point. I think that ad-supported instances exist, and that is kind of between the users there and the service providers, as long as the users have the choice to leave and take their data and connections.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@stefan @wendinoakland putting ads into the streams that go *between* instances is a much bigger deal.
My instinct is that it just shouldn't happen. However, I could imagine some people on the Fediverse might want the choice to follow an ad-supported account.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
If there are going to be ads on some streams, I'd want them clearly marked at the protocol level, so they can easily be filtered by the recipient, and treated differently than other content (for example, not put into search results or the fediverse feed).
I'd probably also want a flag on the account to show that it is ad-supported, so followers are informed before they follow.
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Evan Prodromoureplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@stefan @wendinoakland but honestly, I think there are more important things to work on.
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@puppygirlhornypost2 @stefan @wendinoakland yes, we are going to talk to developers about it and come up with guidelines and maybe an ActivityPub extension for long text.
> Why are we focusing on this when we have other issues to worry about.
Ooh, good question. If you were setting priorities for a Fediverse-related non-profit, what 2-3 projects would you want it to work on in the first year?
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@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Moderation tooling honestly, we're missing a lot of things on this platform.
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@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] To come back to this, defederations are not defined by the standard. There's no standard behavior for what should be done when an instance defederates from another. Mastodon severs all the following/follower relations during a defed, misskey (and sharkey forks) do not, allowing for defederations to be reversible. It'd be nice to sit down and come up with what a defederation looks like and how it should be implemented. Personally I don't think that all defeds should sever the connection (so perhaps defining "Soft defed" would be a useful thing to do in this case)
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Evan Prodromou last edited by
@evan @wendinoakland Thank you, I appreciate you saying that. And that you're engaging with critics, as far as I can tell, in good faith.
Nothing is set in stone yet, and conversations like these are crucial, even if they're difficult, and can easily get emotional. I'm sure you understand that everyone speaking up does it out of love and care for something you've helped create.
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by
@evan @wendinoakland But for me, the bottom line is, welcoming Meta is a huge mistake given their impact on the world, and disrespectful to all those who want the fediverse to succeed.
When Threads were announced, I was on the fence about whether to federate with them. I understood the benefits. With memories of their deeds slowly fading, I was willing to "see and wait".
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Stefan Bohacekreplied to Stefan Bohacek last edited by [email protected]
@evan @wendinoakland I highly recommend reading this article, if you haven't yet. After putting everything in context, I just could not justify being anywhere near that company.
Untangling Threads - Erin Kissane's small internet website
Meta's Threads service is joining the Fediverse, and I think there are some things about Meta—and about Fediverse mechanics—that it's important to include in that conversation.
(erinkissane.com)
And just to add, --
"great that companies have to engage with the Fediverse"
Absolutely, this probably feels like a huge validation of your work, and those of everyone involved.
I just want it done on our community's terms.
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@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Some software allow for "allowlist" defederation too, which means that by default users are not allowed to federate unless they've explicitly been allowed. Only some software supports this (I believe akkoma? I'd have to look). It's my opinion that in order to began the building blocks of making an inclusive platform for everyone we need to look at how instances do defederation, suspension (deactivation and activation of actors) along with "silencing" which is the fedi equivalent of shadow bans. Things like markdown can come later (I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I hate the inconsistency between misskey's mfm and how mastodon, akkoma, pleroma has markdown) I'm just saying that out of the priorities you're gonna want to have the tools necessary to protect the network before some of the cosmetics.