#BlueSky isn't decentralised or federated.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

The more I look at ATproto, the "standard" behind Bluesky, the more I see vague promises of full decentralisation and federation that "currently" are implemented in centralised ways, because "right now" they "unfortunately" have to do it that way. No clear roadmap on when these centralised elements will be removed/replaced. Now if a "standard" allows for such fundamental deviations, I cannot take it serious. That's just me, though.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

I also fail to see a lot of community uptake on creating alternative implementations of ATproto. Compared to the creative chaos around ActivityPub/ActivityStreams it definitely feels more like a walled garden.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

So, in conclusion and IMHO, BlueSky is a successful Twitter alternative.

The Fediverse including Mastodon is not. The fediverse is a fundamentally different and bigger thing due to its truly federated nature.

And both can have their place in the market of attention.

One ultimately is a commercial endeavour while the other is not. But for the general audience that simply is not the decisive factor. One can find that A Bad Thing, or one can shrug and move on in ones preferred direction

[jautero@climatejustice.social]

@jwildeboer It's also Twitter alternative in the sense that there is nothing to stop it becoming similar cesspool as Twitter.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@jautero Yes. But we also have quite our share of trolls, misogynists, racists and haters in the Fediverse. Most instance admins I know however care a lot about keeping them blocked and away from their users.

[justinh@twit.social]

@jwildeboer @jautero Yes exactly, Mastodon has mechanisms that prevent it from turning into a cesspool.

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@JustinH @jwildeboer @jautero Bluesky too has put a lot of thought toward moderation. Both Mastodon and Bluesky are similar in that they’re light on algorithms and when in use are voluntary. Threads on the other hand despite connecting to the #fediverse is a bigger “cesspool” in your feed magnet due to relying on Meta algorithms. I plan to drop my Threads account once they have enough ActivityPub features to allow me to fully engage desired accounts via Mastodon.

[justinh@twit.social]

@bryanruby @jwildeboer @jautero How does moderation on BlueSky work?

I agree Threads shouldn't even be in the discussion but for the same reasons BlueSky shouldn't.

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@JustinH @jwildeboer @jautero

Bluesky has basic tools moderation tools you would expect (block, mute, warn, etc) you would come to expect. But they also have a labeling system (both official and allows for third-party) that allows users to report on users/posts. For instance I can use a third-party labeler to block Broncos fans (for real). All of this is voluntary for the user to use or not use. Basic image below. An example of “advanced” is Bluesky’s own:
https://bsky.app/profile/moderation.bsky.app

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@JustinH @jwildeboer @jautero

Additional information can be found at Bluesky. The second link is a recent Verge article that talks about the “extras” you can do within Bluesky.

Community Guidelines - Bluesky

Bluesky (bsky.social)

Here’s some cool stuff you can do with Bluesky

Bluesky offers a lot of unique features like algorithmic feeds and custom moderation that can make for a rich, in-control experience for users.

The Verge (www.theverge.com)

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@bryanruby It's not a very transparent system, though, IMHO. Users in Germany get a "required" second labeler, that doesn't tell you what it is doing (I can make an educated guess, though, as I know German laws on illegal content like Holocaust denial, Nazi symbols etc.) @JustinH @jautero

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@jwildeboer @JustinH @jautero Looks like the “German version” is doing nothing at the moment. It would have labels on that page if it did something. As far as I can tell..not an expert.

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@jwildeboer @JustinH @jautero Jan, I suspect that’s a placeholder for complying with German law in case something isn’t covered under global moderation tools.

Network Enforcement Act - Wikipedia

(en.wikipedia.org)

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@bryanruby I am sure it is. And the fact that it is added to my profile just shows again that there is quite some centralisation in Bluesky. Which was the original starting point of this thread. Note: I am not saying that's a bad thing. That is a decision I leave to every single individual. @JustinH @jautero

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@jwildeboer @JustinH @jautero Yes, it’s interesting to see Bluesky take a hybrid approach over centralization-decentralization. They have the potential of utilizing the best of both systems as well as the worst of both systems. At this time, Bluesky’s future is highly dependent on who or what group is in control of the wheel.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@bryanruby The main difference between the Fediverse and Bluesky to me is that in the fediverse such decisions are decentralised while Bluesky is a centralised entity that can make far-reaching decisions without any "vote" by its users. In the Fediverse users can "vote" with their presence. If an instance (admin) decides to do something deemed wrong by its users, they can migrate away to other instances. A crude form of democracy that actually is worth exploring more, IMHO @JustinH @jautero

[justinh@twit.social]

@jwildeboer @bryanruby @jautero Eh, if every individual has to do the work of moderating every single little thing that comes their way it becomes exhausting really fast.

Putting the onus on the people being harassed to stop the harassment is a surefire way to discourage those people from participating (which knowing Dorsey & co I suspect might be part of the point!).

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@JustinH I am not saying that.The context of the "decision I leave to every single individual" in the previous post is if they think centralisation is a good or bad thing. WRT moderation in general: In the Fediverse, instance admins typically do the bulk of blocking unwanted accounts or instances. The reporting mechanism is is very relevant to that. @bryanruby @jautero

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@bryanruby Right now, in Mastodon-Land, you can migrate your account but not your content (at lest not that easily). But with #Solidpod work is being done to decouple your content from the instance, something I find extremely interesting for the near future and progress of the Fediverse. https://activitypods.org @JustinH @jautero

[justinh@twit.social]

@jwildeboer @bryanruby @jautero Right exactly, but I've seen no evidence that BlueSky is actually taking on (or is capable of taking on) any of the burden of moderating. Threads is good example of a quadrillion dollar company that *still* can't moderate as effectively as fediverse volunteers.