#BlueSky isn't decentralised or federated.

[mackuba@martianbase.net]

@jwildeboer you can absolutely run your own relay and people have already done that for testing at least

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@mackuba Sure. At some point in the future all of Bluesky will be fully decentralised and reach federation levels that the ActivityStream already has And that point is a moving target since years.

[mackuba@martianbase.net]

@jwildeboer I won't argue that it isn't as decentralized in practice as AP right now, I'm just saying that "they promise that in future you might be able to run your own relay" is misleading, because you can do that today

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@mackuba And, as you said, that is for testing ATM. And the other argument with the did:plc still stands. Anyway, right now Bluesky is by all practical means centralised and I am not convinced that will really change. ATProto stays a proprietary, non-open standard, owned by a non-open organisation, not a community or SSO (Standard Setting Organisation) IMHO.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@mackuba "The author mentions that setting up a Relay requires around 4.5 TB of disk space, and that it’s growing by around 18 GB a day. However, that was said before the most recent bump in growth. The data and processing requirements will only accelerate as more people use the service." - https://anderegg.ca/2024/11/15/maybe-bluesky-has-won

[stooovie@mas.to]

@mackuba @jwildeboer relay, yes. So Bsky is just offloading networking costs onto the users, while keeping power.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@stooovie Same with hosting your own PDS. However, Bluesky/atproto relays demand A LOT of resources. 4-5TB of storage with a growth rate of around 20GB/day, so while technically you can run your own relay, practically it doesn't make sense in its current form. @mackuba

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

The more I look at ATproto, the "standard" behind Bluesky, the more I see vague promises of full decentralisation and federation that "currently" are implemented in centralised ways, because "right now" they "unfortunately" have to do it that way. No clear roadmap on when these centralised elements will be removed/replaced. Now if a "standard" allows for such fundamental deviations, I cannot take it serious. That's just me, though.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

I also fail to see a lot of community uptake on creating alternative implementations of ATproto. Compared to the creative chaos around ActivityPub/ActivityStreams it definitely feels more like a walled garden.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

So, in conclusion and IMHO, BlueSky is a successful Twitter alternative.

The Fediverse including Mastodon is not. The fediverse is a fundamentally different and bigger thing due to its truly federated nature.

And both can have their place in the market of attention.

One ultimately is a commercial endeavour while the other is not. But for the general audience that simply is not the decisive factor. One can find that A Bad Thing, or one can shrug and move on in ones preferred direction

[jautero@climatejustice.social]

@jwildeboer It's also Twitter alternative in the sense that there is nothing to stop it becoming similar cesspool as Twitter.

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@jautero Yes. But we also have quite our share of trolls, misogynists, racists and haters in the Fediverse. Most instance admins I know however care a lot about keeping them blocked and away from their users.

[justinh@twit.social]

@jwildeboer @jautero Yes exactly, Mastodon has mechanisms that prevent it from turning into a cesspool.

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@JustinH @jwildeboer @jautero Bluesky too has put a lot of thought toward moderation. Both Mastodon and Bluesky are similar in that they’re light on algorithms and when in use are voluntary. Threads on the other hand despite connecting to the #fediverse is a bigger “cesspool” in your feed magnet due to relying on Meta algorithms. I plan to drop my Threads account once they have enough ActivityPub features to allow me to fully engage desired accounts via Mastodon.

[justinh@twit.social]

@bryanruby @jwildeboer @jautero How does moderation on BlueSky work?

I agree Threads shouldn't even be in the discussion but for the same reasons BlueSky shouldn't.

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@JustinH @jwildeboer @jautero

Bluesky has basic tools moderation tools you would expect (block, mute, warn, etc) you would come to expect. But they also have a labeling system (both official and allows for third-party) that allows users to report on users/posts. For instance I can use a third-party labeler to block Broncos fans (for real). All of this is voluntary for the user to use or not use. Basic image below. An example of “advanced” is Bluesky’s own:
https://bsky.app/profile/moderation.bsky.app

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@JustinH @jwildeboer @jautero

Additional information can be found at Bluesky. The second link is a recent Verge article that talks about the “extras” you can do within Bluesky.

Community Guidelines - Bluesky

Bluesky (bsky.social)

Here’s some cool stuff you can do with Bluesky

Bluesky offers a lot of unique features like algorithmic feeds and custom moderation that can make for a rich, in-control experience for users.

The Verge (www.theverge.com)

[jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net]

@bryanruby It's not a very transparent system, though, IMHO. Users in Germany get a "required" second labeler, that doesn't tell you what it is doing (I can make an educated guess, though, as I know German laws on illegal content like Holocaust denial, Nazi symbols etc.) @JustinH @jautero

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@jwildeboer @JustinH @jautero Looks like the “German version” is doing nothing at the moment. It would have labels on that page if it did something. As far as I can tell..not an expert.

[bryanruby@me.dm]

@jwildeboer @JustinH @jautero Jan, I suspect that’s a placeholder for complying with German law in case something isn’t covered under global moderation tools.

Network Enforcement Act - Wikipedia

(en.wikipedia.org)